To think my friend has failed her kids

[PinkSlipperQueen]

I know its her choice but i feel shes failed them as she had the responsibility to actually teach them and she hasn't. She does very little with them and it's bloody aparent.

She has 4 children that she supposedly "home schools" but yeah the oldest ones 14 and 16 are obviously lacking big time they seem to be more like 10 year olds in the way they act and talk. She pulled them out before secondary school so they have basically no secondary education and the youngest have hardly any basic education. She hands them work while shes cleaning the house etc but they basically just play playstation all day and not much else.

I juat feel like shes failed them by not letting them have a basic state education. Her reason for taking them out was that she didn't like secondary school and didnt want them to go through it

[RichardBucket]

Of course these children are being failed if what you say is true.

It's a bit worrying that the homeschoolers on here can't see past their defensiveness...

[Luggage16]

MellowAutumn - really? I know a lot of home edders and haven't seen anything that would concern me like that at all. Mental health issues shouldn't be a reason to say someone can't home ed either - I am pretty sure a large number of teachers in schools have mental health issues (its a pretty broad category of issue tbh!)

[Graphista]

Agree I know several people - including my ex who went to a very posh private school - who have been failed by schools!

He was functionally illiterate and had only read one book his entire school career. Dyslexia undiagnosed or even considered! Very well known school.

I know several people who've had a 'proper' school education and have left school functionally illiterate/innumerate

[Luggage16]

graphista - I agree totally!! Plus pretty much every social awkard person I know has been through the school system.

[MatildaTheCat]

'Homeschooling' is a very loose term and covers a wide spectrum from parents who undertake to ensure their DC have a wide, full and exciting education to those who don't like schools or authority so just don't engage. I met a teen who was homeschooled because she didn't like school and both parents worked full time.

My son's best friend was pulled out of school at 13 when his DM fell out with the head. He sat at home for several years with literally no education at all. I'm not sure if the lea even knew about him. He has no exams and big, big gaps in his knowledge. He's done well, though. Moved abroad, started a business with inherited money and is kind and loving.

However,no suspect that is despite rather than because of his education. His mother was mentally unwell but I believe she did him a great disservice.

[lougle]

The national pass rate of 5 A*-C GCSEs in 2015 was 64.9%. So 35% of school educated children didn't 'pass' their GCSEs.

Bear that in mind when you think that 100% of children who are Home Educated should be successful!

[Cagliostro]

We have visits once a year to check on the DCs, I don't have an issue with it at all

[MatildaTheCat]

When I mention mental health in my post I don't mean that the DM was therefore incapable of home schooling ( although she didn't do any) rather that she made rash decisions and a spat with the school led to her removing her son when it could and should have been easily resolved. I was involved so I know exactly what happened.

[Graphista]

Lougle also correct me if I'm wrong but I believe those figures also don't include children who didn't take the exams?

[Mellowautumn]

Luggage - yes I'm serious - have seen it and reported it twice - families where the neglect and abuse has been seen by the HE community in one case for years but like many of the posters here been minimised and explained as people not understandinf and 'Sandra Dodd'isEd - I have been involved with lots of legal cases involving home edders - some of them with LEA's and some with the NRP - I started off militant no visits, no monitoring, no questions - my personal and my professional experiences have ultimately changed my mind. I admire many people in the HE community but there is a real need for them to stand up and be counted when children are being let down.
Mental health issues in themselves are no reason not to home educate but when the mental heath issues are why the parent home educates there are real reasons why it can be a bad idea.

[MsHooliesCardigan]

Ginger I don't think anyone would deny that school doesn't suit some children and that some schools are crap. But it doesn't automatically follow that everyone who home eds is doing a brilliant job - see Mellows post. I really don't see this thread as being against HE. In every profession, you will get people who are rubbish at their job. I'm a nurse and if someone tried to make out that all nurses are shit, I would defend my profession but, if someone said that they'd been treated appallingly by a nurse, I would agree that it was completely unacceptable. Most of my encounters with Police, doctors, midwives have been positive but a few have been awful. Accepting that there are some home edders who are doing it for the wrong reasons or not doing it very well is not saying that HE is a bad thing just as someone having a terrible experience with a midwife is saying that all midwives are terrible and we should get rid of them all.
Regarding your point about children at school deciding that they hate English or maths - yes they can but they they don't get the option of just completely opting out of even trying. If I had been Home edded and given a completely free choice about what to study, I would never have bothered with maths. However, I had to do it and managed to just scrape a C at O level. Without that, as I said earlier, I would not be in a job that I have been doing for 20 years and love with all my heart.

[london333]

This thread is a perfect example of the inconsistencies and dangers of home ed.
There are many fantastic home educating families whose children thrive. There are also a minority of families who are using home ed for all the wrong reasons - and their children fail to thrive and flourish - and in a number of awful cases are abused and on rare occasions, die.
Tragically many HE parents and organisations completely fail to appreciate the dangers to these children and have engaged in vitriolic campaigns against any proposals that all children should have some level of 'scrutiny' or monitoring so that their wellbeing can be assured.
I have had many years of being responsible in two LAs for home education and this group of children were the ones who kept me awake at night - the children who I knew were being kept away from schools / communities for bad reasons. But unless we could prove that these children were at risk of significant harm - and of course without ever seeing a child, there was usually limited evidence of harm - these children continued to languish at home with parents who were sometimes mentally ill, abusive or with isolationist religious beliefs (just a few examples) and where we knew that a child was not getting an emotionally healthy life or appropriate education but couldn't access them to prove it.
Meanwhile some home educating parents and organisations adopt a hostile approach to LAs and actively encourage parents to not work with us. Fine for those children who thrive but (IMHO) wilfully damaging for those vulnerable children who have parents who use home ed as a cover to abuse or neglect their children. Sadly the hypocrisy of some of the HE community in ignoring the needs of these children seems to know no bounds.
I also know that this post will also receive a hostile approach as sadly many HE parents seem only interested in their own rights to family life and privacy - while children in neglectful families are left to suffer as their parents use the HE guidance to stop any access to their children.
It really is overdue that a child's rights should be seen of as more important than parental rights.

[BluePancakes]

I'm not sure if the lea even knew about him.

Then, this is the fault of the school. Upon deregistration, it is the school's responsibility to inform the LA. The LA will be in touch after deregistration, and periodically (often annual) thereafter. They have no duty to 'monitor' however can make informal queries about the education taking place. The parent does not have to respond to these, but would be wise for them to do so. If there is evidence of a lack of education, the LA can issue a SAO (school attendance order) forcing the child to go to school.

As for parents working full time whilst HEing, obviously I cannot comment about the particular case a PP referred to, however, there is no reason why a full-time working parent cannot HE, since HE is not limited to school times, days nor terms. Have a look at the government's guidelines for LAs, specifically section 3.13: media.education.gov.uk/assets/files/pdf/e/guidelines%20for%20las%20on%20elective%20home%20educationsecondrevisev2%200.pdf

[misshelena]

Ginger: "If you feel that you know them well enough to discuss it with them, then do so. But making snap judgements when you barely know them and don't really know what provision is there for the children is being judgemental based on your own ignorance of the situation."

OP is doing exactly what MN is here for -- check for "reasonableness" before acting. Are you new to MN?

[PinkSwimGoggles]

yanbu
imo people who wish to home ed need to be made clear what it involves and that they have to ensure tgat the dc are at an educational level comparable to school.
perhaps regular assessments of home ed children is needed to ensure no child is left behind.

but radical home ed people see this differently.

[Mellowautumn]

High 5'school London333 - a hard job !

[GingerHollyandIvy]

misshelena No. I've been here for a very very long time. Did yuo mean to be so rude?

[GingerHollyandIvy]

you even

[windypolar]

There are also a minority of families who are using home ed for all the wrong reasons - and their children fail to thrive and flourish - and in a number of awful cases are abused and on rare occasions, die.

Sifting through the clichés thoughout Can you back that particular statement up please, london. That won't do.

[windypolar]

*throughout

[lougle]

@Graphista I think you'd be right. The figure I heard was 40% of year 11 children with 5 A*-C grade GCSEs.

[GingerHollyandIvy]

Ginger I don't think anyone would deny that school doesn't suit some children and that some schools are crap. But it doesn't automatically follow that everyone who home eds is doing a brilliant job

Let's review what I said, shall we???

There are some crap schools out there (which is ignored by the LA and the parents), and some good schools. The same is true for home education.

Taking things out of context without reading the entire post is not helpful for the conversation.

[GingerHollyandIvy]

imo people who wish to home ed need to be made clear what it involves and that they have to ensure tgat the dc are at an educational level comparable to school.
perhaps regular assessments of home ed children is needed to ensure no child is left behind.

And what about the children left behind in the school system? Are they going to also ensure that all the dcs in school are at the same or comparable level of education as others in school?

Because school is certainly not the shining beacon of perfection when it comes to education for all.

Look. The law says that parents are responsible for their child's education. Not the school. Not the LA. Parents. We can opt to send them to school, and that is the norm for most parents. It is not, however, required by law for them to attend school. They must have a suitable education. The reason we have OFSTED and the like is that the schools are answerable to us as parents to show that they are actually providing our children with a suitable education. People seem to be a bit muddled on this.

[brasty]

I get really fed up of the usual response from many in the HE community to crap HE by some families. The usual response is simply to say that some schools provide a crap education.

Two wrongs do not make a right. There are inspections and other regulations in place to try and get all schools up to scratch. There is nothing in place to get all HE up to scratch.

[london333]

Mellowautumn - it could be fantastic as you watched children with sporting prowess, musicians, and often children for whom mainstream just didn't suit, flourish and grow. Many parents did a fabulous job. I never had any worries about those children.
But the this hidden group of children .... I really did have sleepless nights. There were no checks and balances and we all knew that they had NO access to other adults if things did go wrong - no one to talk to, to disclose to, to get that understanding that many abused children get as they grow up and come into contact with other adults and communities.
I do understand the desire for privacy that families have but I believe that if you choose to educate your child outside schools you should graciously accept that you have a responsibility to allow 'the state' a level of monitoring to ensure that your child is Ok.
But I can guarantee that any attempts to do this will be met with total hostility by some very vocal HE parents and organisations. They have done it before and will no doubt do it again