To think my friend has failed her kids

[PinkSlipperQueen]

I know its her choice but i feel shes failed them as she had the responsibility to actually teach them and she hasn't. She does very little with them and it's bloody aparent.

She has 4 children that she supposedly "home schools" but yeah the oldest ones 14 and 16 are obviously lacking big time they seem to be more like 10 year olds in the way they act and talk. She pulled them out before secondary school so they have basically no secondary education and the youngest have hardly any basic education. She hands them work while shes cleaning the house etc but they basically just play playstation all day and not much else.

I juat feel like shes failed them by not letting them have a basic state education. Her reason for taking them out was that she didn't like secondary school and didnt want them to go through it

[caringcarer]

YANBU. If you honestly believe that they are not receiving an education then report them to the LA who should investigate. I think they are going to clamp down on this as OFSTED see home schooled children as potentially becoming radicalised.

[NicknameUsed]

The problem is that most jobs now require a minimum of English and maths GCSEs now. Although being educated is not all about GCSEs, I think that some posters underestimate what most employers are looking for these days.

[GingerHollyandIvy]

No. OFSTED see children who are in illegal schools as potentially becoming radicalised. Illegal schools are not the same as home ed.

[QueenLizIII]

No Keith education is not broader than that. Churning out children with no gcses is sure going to help them get a place at uni or into a profession if that is what they want isnt it

With no gcses a good university (if that is what they want) isnt going to pat them on the head and say your education is better and broader. they will see they havent even obtained the bare minimum.

No sciences and maths means no medicine, engineering, etc

What do you propose these kids do and where do they start with HE or looking for work with no qualifications?

Im out.

[QueenLizIII]

Although being educated is not all about GCSEs, I think that some posters underestimate what most employers are looking for these days.

Quite. Articulated better than I did.

[Keithreefteeth]

Again i think it matters as to whether you see education as a preparation for work.

[ZeViteVitchofCwismas]

Thankfully that is just a matter of perspective and as a tolerant society its up to each family how and what they educate


No its not.

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/nicky-morgan-orders-review-on-home-schooling-amid-fears-children-having-minds-poisoned-by-a6779886.html

"The Education Secretary, Nicky Morgan, has asked officials to review home schooling amid fears that thousand of children are having their minds “filled with poison” by radicalised parents.

Between 20,000 and 50,000 children are thought to be educated at home – but the Government has no idea of the exact number because parents are under no obligation to inform their local council.

"The focus on home schooling highlights growing concern in government over the problem of children being radicalised by religious extremists abusing positions of trust to promote hardline doctrine"

[windypolar]

Windypolar we will have to agree to differ then. A red flag to whom, about what? SS have no involvement purely on the basis of a child being HE

I didn't say that now did I? I said ignoring contact from the LA about your home ed provision (never an advised course in the home ed. groups) would be seen as a red flag, and you'd find yourself with an SAO.
They have little choice about contact, other than the method. So saying they don't have to have any contact is incorrect.

[QueenLizIII]

Again i think it matters as to whether you see education as a preparation for work.

Preparation for HE though.

How do they do further study without the bare minimum?

[Keithreefteeth]

Obviously it is impossible to talk about this specific case but in general if you have a child who wants to do the exams, they can. But the key word is want.

I recognise it is a huge paradigm shift. And thankfully plenty of educational establishments take into account home ed.

[GingerHollyandIvy]

Home ed children can and often do take GCSEs, usually at a different time schedule than children in school.

[Keithreefteeth]

Youre assuming that home educated children arent doing the bare minimum, whatever that is.

[MsHooliesCardigan]

Keith As I've said, I have no issue with HE and I've seen it done brilliantly. But how far do you take the line of going with an individual child's 'choices and aptitudes?'. What if a child decides that they hate English or maths and don't want to bother with them? I'm not the biggest fan of our education system but talking about preparing children to be drones for 'The System' is taking it a bit far. I'm sure that isn't why most people go into teaching. In hindsight, I think educating DS1 at home up to secondary age would have worked really well but would have been a disaster for DS2 as he would have been completely resistant to me teaching him anything and would just have wanted to draw monsters all day. However, he absolutely thrives in school because he's outrageously extrovert and loves having loads of people around.
I hated maths but I wouldn't be in the job I love if I hadn't passed my O level. Children aren't able to think about the long term implications of not bothering with maths because they find it boring.

[Keithreefteeth]

Misshooliescardigan i take your point. I think it is horses for courses but increasingly there are a cohort of children for whom school is a very poor fit, yet there are almost no alternatives.

[GingerHollyandIvy]

What if a child decides that they hate English or maths and don't want to bother with them?

Because no child in school has ever done this??

I know children that have gone on to college and university without taking GCSEs.

[NicknameUsed]

"I know children that have gone on to college and university without taking GCSEs."

How old were they when they went? What year was this? I doubt that an 18 year old who has just left "education" would get a university place without some kind of evidence that they could study for a degree.

They would still have to do an access course or some other kind of qualification to show that they were capable of further study.

[Smartleatherbag]

I know several homeschooling families. They're all very well educated, apart from one, who sounds like the one you describe. The kids are illiterate. It's dreadful.

[GingerHollyandIvy]

I've not quizzed their parents for the details, but within the last couple years.

[GingerHollyandIvy]

I know several homeschooling families. They're all very well educated, apart from one, who sounds like the one you describe. The kids are illiterate. It's dreadful.

I know of a number of children that have attended school right up to age 16 and were functionally illiterate. I can't say I was that impressed either. And yet... how many children are still attending the same schools those children did?

[Keithreefteeth]

^^this

[Mellowautumn]

A few unis particular for arts courses will accept portfolios instead of gcses - A levels - they are very few and far between and changes with staff. 99.9% of courses need the min 5 gcses and relevant a levelsit's just a basic fact of education. I know of one superb home edder who's 16 got a degree with the OU but has now had to sit 5 gcses as the career he wants to do specifis them as a non negotiable qualification -
As a new friend op you may not be in a place to judge the education but I can tell you as so.eine who was involved in HE for quite a while - there are a lot of crap home edders - there are a lot who have mental health issues and should not be allowed to home edders - there is neglect and abuse that is know about and 'ignored' by the home edders community.
There are some incredible home edders but there is a alot of turning a blind eye to stuff that they should report but like many minority groups I think they feal the need to stick together and 'explain' away many unacceptable things rather than expose the failings to the public gaze.

[GingerHollyandIvy]

There are some crap schools out there (which is ignored by the LA and the parents), and some good schools. The same is true for home education.

If you feel that you know them well enough to discuss it with them, then do so. But making snap judgements when you barely know them and don't really know what provision is there for the children is being judgemental based on your own ignorance of the situation.

[Luggage16]

I know several homeschooling families. They're all very well educated, apart from one, who sounds like the one you describe. The kids are illiterate. It's dreadful.

I know of a number of children that have attended school right up to age 16 and were functionally illiterate. I can't say I was that impressed either. And yet... how many children are still attending the same schools those children did?


^^
This! Yes there are def some home edders who are not doing the best possible job with educating their children. But there are also many many schools who are also failing our children. I am pretty sure most parents with kids in school would be horrified to be told their children had to be home educated on the basis that some schools get it wrong. For this reason I don't think we should ever take away peoples right to home educate on the basis a few may get it wrong for their child. I am a big believer in most parents wanting the best for their children so think most home educators do everything in their power to future proof their children.

With regards to talking to the children to see what they are doing I don't mean it in a prying way. I mean actually genuinely get to know the children. What are they interested in, what are they passionate about, how do they like to spend their time (without an emphasis on what 'learning' is taking place).

[DinosaursRoar]

Keith - education should be broader than just GCSEs, but education in childhood should be about preparing children for adulthood, and if you don't have any qualifications of any sort, adulthood will be incredibly difficult. If you have aquired a selection of interesting skills, but not ones that employers need, then your career options are limited. (Doesn't matter how interesting or well rounded you are, if you don't have GCSEs in Maths and English, most employers won't bother interviewing you)

OP - rather than quiz the children on what they are doing, you might be better asking them what they want to do as adults, do they have any aspirations? That could open the conversation with her about helping her DC get to that - perhaps suggest work experience, hopefully getting them to ask someone already doing the job about what they want, how they get to that role (including what qualifications they need).

[Graphista]

you barely know the family (so quite possibly you're unaware of any health or learning issues the children may have), have given no indication of your own qualification to assess their educational level, dont seem to have considered that the questions you're asking are rude and intrusive (which may well be why she's giving dismissive flippant answers because she senses your prejudice), and are clearly coming at this subject from a point of prejudice and I'M not a home educator and can see how offensive you're being!

IF their education is genuinely being neglected of course someone needs to help them but you can't possibly know this!

I've peers who were home educated (primary and/or secondary) plus some friends home ed. for lots of reasons, the main one is usually lack of support for children with learning difficulties or gifted children.

The peers I was at college and uni with and they coped absolutely fine with the work mostly better than those with a traditional school education. Some had arranged to take exams independently, some took some sort of assessment provided by the establishment they were applying to which combined with their interviews allowed the college/uni to assess if they were suitable students. Employers I know have done similar, had an interview, asked for examples of work etc you don't HAVE to have traditional exam certificates.

Do some reading up on home ed and address your prejudice. Or at least this would put you in a position to GENUINELY assess if they are 'being failed'.