To think my friend has failed her kids

[PinkSlipperQueen]

I know its her choice but i feel shes failed them as she had the responsibility to actually teach them and she hasn't. She does very little with them and it's bloody aparent.

She has 4 children that she supposedly "home schools" but yeah the oldest ones 14 and 16 are obviously lacking big time they seem to be more like 10 year olds in the way they act and talk. She pulled them out before secondary school so they have basically no secondary education and the youngest have hardly any basic education. She hands them work while shes cleaning the house etc but they basically just play playstation all day and not much else.

I juat feel like shes failed them by not letting them have a basic state education. Her reason for taking them out was that she didn't like secondary school and didnt want them to go through it

[annandale]

I'm very pro home education but I do now think that following the very occasional problems of children being removed from school into abusive homes, that a face-to-face 'inspection' visit at least annually should be compulsory.

I think the most useful thing you could do is sort out a 2 week work experience placement at your or your partner's workplace, supervised by you/your partner, for the 16 year old, then offer it to them (not to the mother, perhaps). That might be the sort of thing that could be harder to access in some home education setups than in school, and allows you to see the 16 year old in action. Bearing in mind that a lot of schooled 16 year olds will look hopeless in action , if you give them a lift to the placement or whatever you'll be able to hear more about whether they are reading, what they like to do, whether it sounds like they are working towards qualifications/apprenticeship/work/further study - just generally get to know them a bit more. It might also tell you whether you feel you do have to call the Education Welfare Officer.

[windypolar]

the children are doing well (compared to my similar age school educated dc). but they are missing out massively on physical activity. no pe or other sports class is organised for them and apart from walking to the shops and playing in the (small) garden they don't do much.

We have many children dong elite and squad sports (gymnastics, ice skating etc) or dance of 10-20+ hours per week in the HE groups. Many others do more than average sports/dance as part of 'socialisation' which is taken as seriously as any core subject. Not to mention those regular activities organised by the HE community during the daytime week hours.

[windypolar]

Many HE people don't attend the regular HE groups, cory. Socialisation opportunities are created elsewhere and there are other opportunities for contact with the HE community not involving the bi weekly/monthly groups. It can vary, but most common complaint is that they can be quite pre school heavy, too, with few children over the age of 10.

Just a small point I'm not disagreeing, cory.

I'd add that parents being negative about schools or state schooled children (institutionalised etc etc). Also, if a child wishes to try school, or at some point it honestly might suit them more than HE, they ought to be given the opportunity to try.

[lisahpost]

Pinkswimgoggles And you assume that the lack of Physcial Fitness in these children is due to not enoguh excersise ? The fitness levels of school children varies greatly depending on their physical differences

[PinkSwimGoggles]

My children average about three to four hours vigorous excersise a day and hike

yours might do. my friends dc don't. they can't keep up with my dc in the park for example.

my dc have 2 hours pe, one swimming in school, plus a sports club. as well as the mile school run and a sports club each.

[NicknameUsed]

Excellent points Cory

For the record DD goes to school. She is studying 4 A levels, having excelled in her GCSEs at a very good school. I have neither the resources, the inclination, nor the skills to educate her myself, and am happy to pay my taxes for the state to educate her.

Having said that I do recognise that this doesn't suit all children.

[corythatwas]

I can imagine that HE would work brilliantly in many, many cases. It might not be ideal in cases where:

the parents themselves do not model curiosity or interest in the world around them

the parents have a very negative attitude towards learning and education
(tbh school is going to struggle too, with the children of parents like this, but I have known cases where an inspiring teacher has made all the difference, despite parental attitudes)

the parents do not find it easy to provide a safe outdoor environment to play in
(notice that the assumption in previous post is that everybody has a detached house with a garden in a safe area)

the parents have a very narrow social circle and the HE groups are either difficult to get to or very similar to family
(very aware that lovely as my own highbrow, keep-ourselves-to-ourselves family and their friends were, I benefitted enormously from meeting completely different people at school; otherwise, I would have found it very difficult to get along with people who weren't just like us)

the parents suffer from social anxiety or other MH issue which makes it difficult for them to take dc out or help them interact with other people

the parents do not have transport and there are no local HE clubs within easy reach

the child does not want to be home-schooled
(this was the case for my dd who had to spend time at home due to health issues and was desperately unhappy)

Of course, most people who are currently HE'ding do not fall in any of those categories. But that would be my objection to seeing HE'ding as something that was right for every family.

[Newbrummie]

My children have changed beyond belief upon attending UK secondary school, none of which is for the better. Stress levels through the roof, attitude, lost their manners. I wish I could home school them tbh k know for s fact I couldn't do a worst job

[lisahpost]

Pinkswimgoggles Physical education is only in schools because kids can't actually move and play during the school day and lack movement and excersise . Walking and playing in the garden is actually excersise and sufficient excersise for children however if home educated kids require it further they can join clubs and do it .
My children average about three to four hours vigorous excersise a day and hike, cycle, climb , parkour, ballet , skating horse riding etc classes and activities as well as free play on the beach and in ththe woods while their school
counterparts are sat at desks and get three times a week PE class that they moan about !
Even if all they do is play in the garden and run round the house for a few hours a day your friends children are doing better than those being sat at a desk and organised sports are not actually necassary for child development , that would be a western social construct .

[PinkSwimGoggles]

a friend home educates.
it's really not an easy option. very time consuming and expensive.
the children are doing well (compared to my similar age school educated dc). but they are missing out massively on physical activity. no pe or other sports class is organised for them and apart from walking to the shops and playing in the (small) garden they don't do much.

[NicknameUsed]

I'm loving all the assumptions here.

Home education works for those children who don't benefit from being educated at school, provided they are being educated in a manner that suits them.

School benefits many other children where the parents cannot or won't educate their children.

Not all home educators educate, nor do all schools fail all children. There are far too many sweeping generalisations on here.

[lisahpost]

I'm loving the comments about teachers and schools on this thread !
Teachers learn crowd control .
Secondary schools are a hotbed of god awful behaviour and attitudes and bullying yet apparently these kids are suffering by not having the so called 'fun ' and 'social interactions ' 😂😂😂

Ok then !

The state school sysytem is failing so many children it's laughable . It is grossly inefficient .
If you think her kids play all day maybe that is because it takes them a tenth of the time to complete work because they have actual one on one attention .

[binkiesandpopcorns]

I have home schooled. DS got exams was socialised and is now in employment. He was much happier out of school than in it.it is maybe not for everyone but I can categorically state that if I had wanted to take the lazy option it would have been far easier to drop him at school every morning

[windypolar]

Don't you mean the home education department within the LA, MrsMattBoner? Might be the best place to contact about...education. They're the people who will deal with SAOs
And they will be in contact with them already, as they deregistered from a school.

Nothing like advising an OP when uninformed about the subject matter. Lots of that going on here.

[Teapotqueenie]

Snorting too at "lazy parenting"! How?

[Teapotqueenie]

MrsMattBomer what do you think that a) home education should look like and b) what social services might do?

[MrsMattBomer]

Sorry, but I actually think this is OP's business.

It's not a case of different parenting - this is kids who are going to be very, very behind and disadvantaged because of lazy parenting. OP, if you really believe they are losing out by being educated at home, please speak to the council or social services.

[windypolar]

Agree bumbley about university. Apparently they cope better with the level of independent learning required at uni.

And saying that, I know a university lecturer who was home educated and doesn't have a single GCSE.

[windypolar]

Am gobsnacked that the local authority doesn't check up on homeschoolers to keep check on progress etc

They do. The overall majority accept visits (in one local LA I can think of - figure of over 90%), those who don't have to provide 'evidence' in other ways. That's a really quick answer, there are other ways in which those not educating are weeded out, and early on.

Studies have shown that the majority of home educators come from middle class demographic and have a high level of education. It is not the easy choice, and it can be expensive, especially in the current economic climate.

[bumbleymummy]

Heather, there are other ways to get into college/university. Some universities actually prefer to see candidates that have been HE because they tend to be more self motivated and don't need to be spoonfed as much.

[Teapotqueenie]

Heatherjayne72 that is, with respect, a hugely narrow view of educational success. In my opinion the role of education is to help children understand themselves and how they can best engage in the world. That includes creative arts, emotional literacy, and good mental health. They are softer outcomes but important none the less. The pinnacle of education isnt your employability when the system spits you out at the other end.

My children include two 6 year olds who have been at preschool, nursery, reception and year 1 in an offsted outstanding school. Despite them having loads of contact time, neither can read at all, and only one can reliably write her name. Does that mean the school is failing? Or the child is failing? And would you apply the same measure to the sane child, performing in the same way, but home educated?

[Heatherjayne1972]

As I see it if a person has not got gcse or a levels then they won't be able to go to university or college since that's what's needed to get in
so surely homeschool should be working towards that goal
Also I'd have thought prospective employers would want to see that 'piece of paper'
Am gobsnacked that the local authority doesn't check up on homeschoolers to keep check on progress etc

[EB123]

I home ed my son (my other two aren't statutory school age yet) we absolutely love it. Home ed is great for us and many other families. Of course there are families that struggle or home ed doesn't suit for a whole host of reasons too, sometimes issues can be overcome in time or managed with support and of course sometimes children may be better in a school.
I would chat to your friend about home ed, be interested in what they are doing and their learning and future plans and be open minded, it doesn't have to look like school to be an education. If you still have genuine concerns after that then there are avenues you can go down.

[windypolar]

I was about to add that bookworm's post didn't come across as very well informed.

[windypolar]

YANBU! I feel the same about home schooling
The OP didn't say that's how she feels about home ed. in general, to be fair. Try reading the thread properly perhaps, it does help