My feed
Premium

Please
or
to access all these features

AIBU?

To think my friend has failed her kids

241 replies

PinkSlipperQueen · 22/12/2016 14:54

I know its her choice but i feel shes failed them as she had the responsibility to actually teach them and she hasn't. She does very little with them and it's bloody aparent.

She has 4 children that she supposedly "home schools" but yeah the oldest ones 14 and 16 are obviously lacking big time they seem to be more like 10 year olds in the way they act and talk. She pulled them out before secondary school so they have basically no secondary education and the youngest have hardly any basic education. She hands them work while shes cleaning the house etc but they basically just play playstation all day and not much else.

I juat feel like shes failed them by not letting them have a basic state education. Her reason for taking them out was that she didn't like secondary school and didnt want them to go through it Hmm

OP posts:
Report
windypolar · 22/12/2016 21:50

Some LAs do automatically refer to social services if a parent refuses to accept a visit or engage (some even call them safeguarding visits). Schools who have concerns about welfare, or ability to HE, will also contact those agencies when a parent attempts to remove child from the register.

Report
BlackeyedSusan · 22/12/2016 22:12

you can not know how they would have been if they had been educated in school.

there are lots of things to learn, and lots of ways to do it that you probably do not see.

Also, you can give targetted input to one or two children in a much shorter time than you could in school, especially primary where the ability range is greater.

Report
london333 · 22/12/2016 22:12

Wndy,
Above you have quoted the first sentence of a recommendation from a serious case review. I think reading the full paragraph better reflects the situation than the 'snippet' that you quote'

'The home education arrangement did not in itself expose Child T to
physical harm or prevent him from being „seen‟ (literally) by
professionals. It did contribute to the overall pattern of neglect and
emotional abuse that he suffered because the quality of education and
stimulation that he received at home was substantially worse than what
was available in either a mainstream or a special school. The choice made by his mother compounded other safeguarding concerns;
protecting ChildT was made more difficult by the very limited powers of the local authority to inspect and regulate home education arrangements
.
This was exacerbated by the fact that education service staff who monitored his home education were not always clear how little had been achieved and did not communicate this clearly to social care colleagues. Social care professional had unrealistic expectations about what level of monitoring and inspection could be undertaken by those in education A better understanding of the guidance about home education is required by everyone concerned with safeguarding children.

Apologies for the long quote but this child was murdered by his mentally ill mother. The serious case review (referenced above) is long and complex and references a multitude of contributing factors and failures. HE was one of these factors and as a society we owe it to children not to hide from these cases and but to face them and to learn from them to ensure that we safeguard children - not to repeatedly deny something because it is uncomfortable.

OP - sorry to have hijacked your thread - I'll stop now. I hope that you will do as has been suggested and contact the LA to share your concerns.
It takes a village to raise a child and all that..... Flowers

Report
CloudPerson · 22/12/2016 22:20

My now 16 yr old has been out of school since February. He was doing nothing at school (but this was hidden by skewed results), was being bullied, his mental health was suffering.
Since coming out he has done very little academic work (10 years of mainstream school has traumatised him beyond belief) and we have faced accusations of failing him as he is unlikely at this time to take GCSEs.
The thing is, even though he was doing less in school, no-one, but no-one, commented on how the school was failing him every single day, how he would have failed any GCSEs he took(if he managed to be in school at all, as his anxiety was so high), and would probably have ended up suicidal and battling to,get any help with our God-awful mental health system.
He didn't fit school, bottom line, never has, never will. School is not the amazing experience that so many seem to think it is (best days of your life and all that crap).
We've co-operated with the LA who have understood the difficulties (and just to point out that even though he is 16 with the academic capabilities of a 9-10 yr old he is by no means a failure Hmm, he can strip an engine down and put it back together, he has an apprenticeship lined up etc) and are happy with what he is doing. Even though some days he does nothing, he's still doing more than he ever did at school.
I have no idea if the mother in the op is doing the right thing or not, but going by the information the op has given it doesn't look like she has enough information to fully judge the situation.
I tend to get defensive about Ds's education status, but only because we are held to account to far higher standards than school ever was, even though arguably our actions will be giving ds a far better chance of future employment.

Report
PinkSlipperQueen · 22/12/2016 22:39

Jaydot500 thanks you actually understand what my point is. Next time she says something related to how she hkme educates and it sounds off i am going to ask her in more detail about resources available etc.

OP posts:
Report
windypolar · 22/12/2016 22:40

I replied to the point you made only, london. I'm addressing each new point or question you bring up at a time Wink And I'm even filling in the gaps of your knowledge, about current procedure.

Why would EHE having easier access have assisted? EHE remit is not supposed to be welfare, they, rightly, pass on concerns to social services. In the case you mention, social services and other agencies were already heavily involved and visiting the family (with their much greater powers of access EHE doesn't have). The EHE provision was deemed below standard in any case, and more than a year of schooling had been missed entirely unaccounted for. etc etc

Report
PinkSlipperQueen · 22/12/2016 22:44

Also this wasn't meant to upset any HE people. I genuinely wanted some rational advice on the situation. To the person saying i dont know what is going on, i do actually have a good idea of the situation if i didn't i wouldn't have posted about it. Im not sure why you're so defensive it seems like you have a lot to prove?

OP posts:
Report
Charley50 · 22/12/2016 23:34

HE threads are always full of defensive paranoid HE'ers, who cannot accept it when people point out that SOME people, under the umbrella term 'home educate', isolate, abuse, indoctrinate, or even 'just' fail to educate the young people in their care.

Report
imjessie · 23/12/2016 00:02

I think you need to be exceptionally bright to teach secondary age children every single subject to gcse level . Teachers do degrees and specialise in subjects they teach . It's not something I would consider myself capable of .

Report
NicknameUsed · 23/12/2016 00:25

Same imjessie

Since the specifications have changed for maths and English GCSE and for geography A level how can home educators evaluate how their children are doing when even the teachers can't. They are unfamiliar with the mark schemes and the syllabuses.

Report
Namejustfornappies · 23/12/2016 08:58

The point a lot of HEdders make to me is that they are not teaching their kids - the kids self teach/ learn and they enable and facilitate. The point of HE for them is to foster a love of learning.

Report
LynetteScavo · 23/12/2016 10:24

Some people who home Ed are crap at it though. I know one very bright woman who home educated her child. The child is now 21 has no qualifications and is virtually unemployable (they've never worked and gave up pretending to do anything other than read aged 18).

I know other people who have done a fab job though. One of their children needed up the best in the country at their interest, because they were able to spend their teenage years doing nothing else. And another friend who was the least likely person ever to home ed is doing a brilliant job much to my amazement but I'm not there to whiteness us. Maybe they actually eat sweets and watch to all day Hmm

Report
windypolar · 23/12/2016 11:45

Grin Lynette That sounds like a few people I know.
Being able to devote time to their specialised interest is an interesting one for me. There's a child in one of the national groups who has achieved very high level (degree level equiv) in piano, other with similar success in academia, and others do elite level dance, ice skating, sport etc with the time commitment needed etc

Somebody mentioned exam specs. We have groups and people devoted to fine discussion of detail of exams (IGCSEs have traditionally been favoured for obvious reasons) for those who need extra support with the changes. They are managing very well indeed.

Report
windypolar · 23/12/2016 11:50

The point a lot of HEdders make to me is that they are not teaching their kids - the kids self teach/ learn and they enable and facilitate. The point of HE for them is to foster a love of learning.

Those are likely to be your unschoolers or autonomous home ed people

Report
bookworm91 · 23/12/2016 15:02

YANBU! I feel the same about home schooling , my auntie home schooled her kids and they barely have any GCSE's , basic reading and writing skills. Unless you are a teacher your self and can properly educate youre children i think it is cruel to deprive them of a decent education !

Report
bumbleymummy · 23/12/2016 15:13

I think you need to read up on HE a bit bookworm. Just because it didn't work for your aunt/cousins doesn't mean that it can't be a 'decent education' (if not more) for many. As some people have already pointed out, some children are failing to get a decent education in school and leave with barely any qualifications.

Report
windypolar · 23/12/2016 15:14

YANBU! I feel the same about home schooling
The OP didn't say that's how she feels about home ed. in general, to be fair. Try reading the thread properly perhaps, it does help Wink

Report
windypolar · 23/12/2016 15:15

I was about to add that bookworm's post didn't come across as very well informed.

Report
EB123 · 23/12/2016 15:28

I home ed my son (my other two aren't statutory school age yet) we absolutely love it. Home ed is great for us and many other families. Of course there are families that struggle or home ed doesn't suit for a whole host of reasons too, sometimes issues can be overcome in time or managed with support and of course sometimes children may be better in a school.
I would chat to your friend about home ed, be interested in what they are doing and their learning and future plans and be open minded, it doesn't have to look like school to be an education. If you still have genuine concerns after that then there are avenues you can go down.

Report
Heatherjayne1972 · 23/12/2016 16:31

As I see it if a person has not got gcse or a levels then they won't be able to go to university or college since that's what's needed to get in
so surely homeschool should be working towards that goal
Also I'd have thought prospective employers would want to see that 'piece of paper'
Am gobsnacked that the local authority doesn't check up on homeschoolers to keep check on progress etc

Report
Teapotqueenie · 23/12/2016 17:28

Heatherjayne72 that is, with respect, a hugely narrow view of educational success. In my opinion the role of education is to help children understand themselves and how they can best engage in the world. That includes creative arts, emotional literacy, and good mental health. They are softer outcomes but important none the less. The pinnacle of education isnt your employability when the system spits you out at the other end.

My children include two 6 year olds who have been at preschool, nursery, reception and year 1 in an offsted outstanding school. Despite them having loads of contact time, neither can read at all, and only one can reliably write her name. Does that mean the school is failing? Or the child is failing? And would you apply the same measure to the sane child, performing in the same way, but home educated?

Report
bumbleymummy · 23/12/2016 17:36

Heather, there are other ways to get into college/university. Some universities actually prefer to see candidates that have been HE because they tend to be more self motivated and don't need to be spoonfed as much.

Report

Don’t want to miss threads like this?

Weekly

Sign up to our weekly round up and get all the best threads sent straight to your inbox!

Log in to update your newsletter preferences.

You've subscribed!

windypolar · 23/12/2016 17:51

Am gobsnacked that the local authority doesn't check up on homeschoolers to keep check on progress etc

They do. The overall majority accept visits (in one local LA I can think of - figure of over 90%), those who don't have to provide 'evidence' in other ways. That's a really quick answer, there are other ways in which those not educating are weeded out, and early on.

Studies have shown that the majority of home educators come from middle class demographic and have a high level of education. It is not the easy choice, and it can be expensive, especially in the current economic climate.

Report
windypolar · 23/12/2016 17:58

Agree bumbley about university. Apparently they cope better with the level of independent learning required at uni.

And saying that, I know a university lecturer who was home educated and doesn't have a single GCSE.

Report
MrsMattBomer · 23/12/2016 20:18

Sorry, but I actually think this is OP's business.

It's not a case of different parenting - this is kids who are going to be very, very behind and disadvantaged because of lazy parenting. OP, if you really believe they are losing out by being educated at home, please speak to the council or social services.

Report
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.