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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think my friend has failed her kids

241 replies

PinkSlipperQueen · 22/12/2016 14:54

I know its her choice but i feel shes failed them as she had the responsibility to actually teach them and she hasn't. She does very little with them and it's bloody aparent.

She has 4 children that she supposedly "home schools" but yeah the oldest ones 14 and 16 are obviously lacking big time they seem to be more like 10 year olds in the way they act and talk. She pulled them out before secondary school so they have basically no secondary education and the youngest have hardly any basic education. She hands them work while shes cleaning the house etc but they basically just play playstation all day and not much else.

I juat feel like shes failed them by not letting them have a basic state education. Her reason for taking them out was that she didn't like secondary school and didnt want them to go through it Hmm

OP posts:
Luggage16 · 22/12/2016 17:25

ah ok so this is what you are witnessing when you visit. My take on this would likely be the following...

You are there, in their house as a guest. She is busy with you but not wanting to neglect their learning so gives them worksheets while she entertains you (it would be quite rude of her to sit working with them and ignoring you). If they have a problem she tells them not to worry as she cant quickly see the answer herself (but will no doubt look it up and go over it with them later) because again she is busy entertaining you and doesn't want to be a bad host.

With the playstation comment please think about how many of your friends with schooled kids say this exact same thing 'oh all my kid wants to do all day is play on the playstation' then have a think about whether that is actually what any of them are doing. It actually sounds like she might have quite a plan with what she is doing with them tbh as a lot of home edders I know would have a morning off when friends are round (on the basis 1 to 1 takes far less time than a classroom setting plus learning takes place outside of school hours so the time can be made up in the evening or weekend when there aren't guests).

If you are genuinely concerned then chat to the kids and see what they are up to, take an interest in them and find out about their passions, it will give you a pretty good insight in to where they are at.

Also if you have only known them for a really short amount of time be aware that you likely have very little idea of where they are emotionally compared to their peers (unless you are round every day which seems unlikely). It is also December - quite frankly lots of people (schools included) slow down for December so productivity will be far lower than it will be the other side of Christmas.

I'm not saying dismiss you niggles entirely but def be aware you are maybe looking at things from a different viewpoint and you may be a little biased

Aeroflotgirl · 22/12/2016 17:28

I am sure that HE done properly, is excellent, but in this case, it does not sound like her children are being educated properly.

Original poster
PinkSlipperQueen · 22/12/2016 17:31

I dont mean it to sound contradictory just i would say imo if home education should be more than handing the kids a peice of paper with little work on between playstaion (kids) and doing laundry (her)

OP posts:
Indrid · 22/12/2016 17:31

Lea don't get involved in our area, but ss are obligated to assess if emotional neglect is report, and in a much better position to get lea to listen if there is any risk to the children's educational well being, which I would doubt for most. (But it does happen for some ofcourse, kids being taken out of school to clean for mum etc)

Luggage16 · 22/12/2016 17:32

ok this comment you've put would make me flinch (and I'm pretty relaxed over peoples approaches) 'oh they couldnt do that they dont have an education!'. Was this said tongue in cheek perhaps? Or she could mean they aren't 'academic' possibly.

Original poster
PinkSlipperQueen · 22/12/2016 17:33

She also works part time and when i ask her about what the kids are learning she normally screws her face up and sruggs it off. Im 100% sure she is not giving them even a basic home education and i just feel sad for the kids

OP posts:
Keithreefteeth · 22/12/2016 17:36

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

It's actually quite straightforward to cover all of those subjects in one project. Project based learning isnt exclusively a home ed thing either.

What saddens and scares me is the notion from many on this thread that education per se, is something about a particular set of subjects, which often have no relavance to real lives, but are what our Establishment did at prep school. Hmm

Education should be about the individual's choices and aptitudes, not to prepare them as drones for The System.

GingerHollyandIvy · 22/12/2016 17:37

If you are genuinely concerned then chat to the kids and see what they are up to

Actually no. We get this all the time, and the dcs hate it. Lots of places "oh no school today?" Dcs say no we're home educated. Immediately people start quizzing them. WTF is that all about?? Do not quiz the children. Do not ask them what they are studying. Completely out of order and not fair to the children.

I dont mean it to sound contradictory just i would say imo if home education should be more than handing the kids a peice of paper with little work on between playstaion (kids) and doing laundry (her)

Of course it does, but are you with them 24 hours a day? We often skip a morning and do more in the afternoon. Or Sunday morning. Or Tuesday evening. Or whenever we get an opportunity.

I presume you went to school? Did you learn spelling and punctuation? Should we be concerned? Hmm

You can't make assumptions based on a small window into their lives.

ZeViteVitchofCwismas · 22/12/2016 17:38

How odd I was under impression home schooled dc still had to pass tests and be on some sort of radar? Otherwise religious fanatics and all sorts could pull their dc out of school and claim they are home schooled?

windypolar · 22/12/2016 17:38

She pulled all four out of school? In that case she'll have had to deregister the children, this information is passed onto the LA by the school (they have to do this) who will have made contact about their educational provision. They will be in contact with their LA.

There are some cases of educational neglect, but in my experience they're few and far between and weeded out quite quickly. I'd be surprised if you were in possession of all the facts and were able to ask pertinent questions to ascertain if a suitable education was taking place.

Keithreefteeth · 22/12/2016 17:39

ZeViteVitchofCwismas

"Religious fanatics"? Thankfully that is just a matter of perspective and as a tolerant society its up to each family how and what they educate.

QueenLizIII · 22/12/2016 17:40

If the children arent receiving adequate education what can they do about it?

It's all very well saying bloody well good that the education authority dont have any right to interfere but if the children end up unable to pass an English or maths GCSE what redress to do they have?

They cant go back to school once they are too old and a tertiary college will only do one year gcse courses for resit purposes but it assumes you have been taught tje course already from 11 at school.

The children have no redress if they do end up without basic qualifications and that doesn't seem right.

Keithreefteeth · 22/12/2016 17:40

Windypolar if she has deregistered she is under no obligation to be in contact with the LA at all.

Keithreefteeth · 22/12/2016 17:42

QueenLizIII That is also the case with kids whose schools fail them and there is no redress whatsoever, hence the MASSIVE growth of home education.

GingerHollyandIvy · 22/12/2016 17:44

She also works part time and when i ask her about what the kids are learning she normally screws her face up and sruggs it off.

Did you ever consider that she doesn't feel the need to answer to you? Perhaps she feels you are critical and quizzing her and she isn't interested in being quizzed.

I don't expect my friends to sit and quiz me about everything we're doing with our home ed. Why would they? They obviously know some of what we're doing as they know we go this specific activities, or exhibits, or things like that. But they don't sit down and say "so, where is little Jimmy in his reading levels this week... has he made progress?"

QueenLizIII · 22/12/2016 17:47

Keithreef I meant in this particular case and other cases where parents do it just because. There is no evidence a school as failed them as she simply didnt send them. They werent withdrawn as a school were failing them.

Therefore if these children end unable to pass a GCSE in basic subjects they can lay the blame firmly at their mothers door as they will never know how they would have performed had they gone to school.

I wouldn't want that on my conscience.

Cantusethatname · 22/12/2016 17:51

My 15 year old is way, way ahead of me in maths, physics, chemistry, electronics and god knows what else. There is absolutely no way I could home educate him and give him what he deserves. He deserves a trained teacher with a degree in the subject, which he gets at school.

GingerHollyandIvy · 22/12/2016 17:51

If the children have been withdrawn from school to home educate, they will have contact of some sort with the LA. There are very few (if any) LAs that do not do some sort of contact with the home educators that have withdrawn from school.

And not all children take GCSEs. If ds1 had continued in the specialised school that he was attending, he would not have acquired a GCSE as none of their children have in the last number of years, according to their stats. I wanted him to have a better education with the chance to take them if he needs/wants to take them.

QueenLizIII · 22/12/2016 17:51

God the typos in that....sorry. Crap phone

Keithreefteeth · 22/12/2016 17:52

Ok. But then you are basing your views on an assumption that a school is "successful" if it churns out kids with GCSEs and the mother's home ed is a "failure" if they dont get any. Education is rather broader than that, surely?!

windypolar · 22/12/2016 17:52

Windypolar if she has deregistered she is under no obligation to be in contact with the LA at all.

Well they cannot be ignored, that would be a foolish tactic. She will have received initial contact in which, and as a minimum, will have had to provide plans details of her educational provision, usually in the form of an ed phil and report. This varies depending on the LA. They will contact at regular intervals, also. Again ignoring contact would be considered a red flag

Keithreefteeth · 22/12/2016 17:53

(My last post was to queenlizIII)

GingerHollyandIvy · 22/12/2016 17:54

Lots of parents who home educate use tutors or courses for their children when they reach that age. As a parent, it is my job to facilitate the learning. That means if I'm not comfortable assisting them in a particular subject, I will make sure he has a tutor who can.

Cantusethatname · 22/12/2016 17:54

Keithreefteeth - of course education should be broader than just GCSEs. But the world is hard and competitive, and having no GCSEs is a very poor start to the world of work.

Keithreefteeth · 22/12/2016 17:54

Windypolar we will have to agree to differ then. A red flag to whom, about what? SS have no involvement purely on the basis of a child being HE