To think my friend has failed her kids

[PinkSlipperQueen]

I know its her choice but i feel shes failed them as she had the responsibility to actually teach them and she hasn't. She does very little with them and it's bloody aparent.

She has 4 children that she supposedly "home schools" but yeah the oldest ones 14 and 16 are obviously lacking big time they seem to be more like 10 year olds in the way they act and talk. She pulled them out before secondary school so they have basically no secondary education and the youngest have hardly any basic education. She hands them work while shes cleaning the house etc but they basically just play playstation all day and not much else.

I juat feel like shes failed them by not letting them have a basic state education. Her reason for taking them out was that she didn't like secondary school and didnt want them to go through it

I didn't read this as a criticism of homeschooling as such but of her friend's failure to educate her DC.
DD1 homeschools her DC and they're both way ahead of their peers who are in school. My DD makes sure the way they learn is interesting and relevant.
Personally I couldn't do it. I was glad DD and her siblings went to school
The local education authority will check that a child not at school is receiving appropriate education but these children seem to have slipped out of the system.

Well I home schooled and we had LEA checks every year....it was a nice way to show off what we had been doing....it's actually very hard having yr kids around you all the time.mine went to school age 9 ish...I was exhausted by then....if you are very worried contact the LEA. And voice your concerns...

OP, you are not being unreasonable.

Unfortunately some homeschooling parents are obviously very evangelical about their lifestyle choices and will not even consider the possibility that some people like the OP's friend are opting their children out of education under the guise of "homeschooling". I don't think anyone believes that homeschooling means sitting at the kitchen table from 9-3 doing lessons, but on the other hand it doesn't mean no education at all.

Everyone's ready to accept that school isn't right for every child and that there are bad teachers and bad schools - so why can't posters accept that there are very bad parents too who say they're home educating when they're not?

Home schooling shouldn't be about handing them work to do alone while she cleans the house. Those poor children.

Have you assessed their reading and maths levels? Do you know all that is being done? Mine sometimes play games during the day. My 10yo loves to play video games - he's been playing one recently about the development of rain forests. He also does games on his online typing lessons. My 7yo plays reading and maths games. Someone could possibly see us out and about during the day and think they're not learning, I suppose. They'd be wrong, but they could think that.

The moment I withdrew my child from school halfway through year 1, there were comments of "what about socialisation?" "how will he learn to read?" "how will he be educated?"

He'd already been in full time school for nursery, reception and half of year 1. He couldn't read, add, count reliably to 10, had absolutely no friends. He was autistic and dyslexic, however, the school refused to differentiate his work and refused to provide the needed support. They were demanding that a child with recognised memory problems and probably dyslexia (as highlighted by assessment done by the senco) and that couldn't reliably count to 10 memorise the number bonds to 20 (just as one example of the difficulties). The teacher's words "he doesn't have to understand them - just memorise them!" Pointing out that he had an actual problem with his short term and working memory yielded nothing in response. He was having daily meltdowns as he couldn't cope. He wasn't getting extra help. He was just left to flounder and then fell apart daily. He was at risk of exclusion and was being put in an isolation room when he had meltdowns. A 5yo - put on his own into a small room and left there. He was terrified and it only made his anxiety worse. When I found out about the isolation room, I withdrew him from school to home educate.

He is now reading, adding, subtracting, multiplying, has friends, attends activities/clubs. His anxiety is greatly reduced as he is no longer being bullied daily as he was in school (which the school refused to acknowledge and refused to do anything about).

My oldest thrived on school and did well there. My younger two struggled, so we now home educate. It has been the best option for them. They have both progressed very well and have more friends and activities now than they ever had at school.

I'm surrounded by home edders and briefly considered it myself (went along to a few local meet ups, joined the local Facebook group etc).
I see and hear a lot of what they do as we meet up often. And as some pp have said some HEdders put a lot of effort in and their kids get a wonderful experience. And some don't. Some i know "mean well", but when we meet up with them and their kids chat to mine about stuff they have learned about recently it is obvious they haven't really learned anything, and have often got things very wrong. Eg the moon being luminous, how many hundreds there are in 1000, etc. So it's variable.

I home schooled for about 6 months in yr 4 DD was being bullied, I had a very strict timetable and we had a check from the local authority she wrote me a lovely letter. But I wasn't sorry when DD started a new school it was much harder than I thought it would be

Luna I do agree with you (though the vast majority of home edders I know seem to be doing a great job) but I think this is hard to judge from the initial post which is why it might be good for the op to try and engage with calm non judgemental discussions with her friend. If you go in heavy handed she will be defensive (and rightfully so!) but if you go in as a true friend you may realise that actually there are other issues at play leading to the older children to seem immature (my eldest has ASD which def makes her come across as immature at times for example). It also may be that you don't have the full picture. She may give them worksheets while she cleans but if that is the case it seems unlikely they play computer games all day as surely you would use their screen time to tidy? Something somewhere doesn't quite add up with the original post as she either she is completely unstructured or using worksheets but not both.

Does the 16 year old have any plans to do exams (not necessarily gcses)? Can the older ones read and write etc? Do they have friends/go to groups? If the elder ones were in school in the past they probably have annual visits where they discuss the kinds of things they are doing. If that is the case then I would assume the local authority has no worries with their provision.

tbh your post seems very judgemental which makes me think its probably quiet biased

Why anyone would home school and not put 100% into it is beyond me. I couldn't do it and have the uttermost respect for teachers.

Based on what you've written OP, these children are being massively failed. So sad.

I'd be quite relieved if teenagers were appearing to act younger, being that most teens want to act older.

I don't really see how you can know the ins and outs of this situations 100%. If you have genuine concerns report to ss.

People have different views on education. If you saw how I 'educated' my young kids you would think I wasn't teaching them. They are young for their age. Have asd/pda /spd/adhd. School fell apart quickly for them so we defaulted to home schooling. Their anxiety was at an all time high so mostly we work on them having a good time, feeling more confident and building coping stratagies that is allowing them to access a better school.

We do go to libary, museums, parks, horse riding, swimming, forest school, play dates outside of school hours and pay for a tutor once a week. I do some phonics/numbers /crafts/messy play at home but we also just watch TV & cuddle & let them play tablets or play with each other or head to soft play or coffee shops. And we have cuddled up in my bed to watch cartoons on occassion also. I'm sure to some this looks like neglecting their education but as their mother I know what's best for helping them. I have experience working with kids with these difficulties and the full backing of pead/gp/camhs/ot/salt/lea & their offical new school (which is a couple of short sessions each week). I'm not the biggest fan of formal education, although I think for my children it will be better in the long term now we have found a better school (that is pro flexible schooling) I wouldn't be surprised if other home schooling parents have much more negative opinion of it. If it's an informed decision to low pressure home school or unschooling or independant learning then that's up to the parents.

But if your nt just judging nievely then report your concerns.

I am puzzled how you can say they never do anything, then bring up worksheets. Clearly that isn't "never do anything" now, is it?

Look, I give my children worksheets regularly. Why? The same reason children at school get homework. To reinforce the things we've gone over that day or that week, and to get them used to self-starting on things. I want them to be able to read the directions and get on with it on their own for that particular worksheet. I remember being handed worksheets in school and basically being told to get on with it. That's just one small aspect of the whole picture IMO.

Oh, and reporting concerns re education should be to the appropriate LA. Not SS.

They dont have tutors do exams or anything like that. In her own words as soon as you take a child out of school the authorities wash their hands of them.

Point of my post i guess is just to get some perspective on it. We have only the past few months been freinds. I genuinely feel for her kids as i think they have been denied an education and actually it makes me realise how important school is.

Ive seen with my own eyes she hands them work then goes off doing housework or sita with me when im there. Ive even seen her say "oh i dont understand either so dont bother" in relation to her son not knowing the answers. I know they play computer games all day because shesays all her kids do is playstaion and nothing all day. She moans about her home.school kids not doing anything!?

HS isen't for me, and its not something to be lighthearted about. There has to be a lot of research and planning. You have to be very into it, and take it very seriously as you are responsible for your child's education.

I don't think the OP is criticising HE per se. I used to have quite a knee jerk reaction against HE but I have learned a lot more about it and now think very differently and can see that it's obviously the best option for some children.
But, as a PP said, it's generally acknowledged that some schools are awful so why should we believe that all Home Edders are doing a brilliant job? There are Home edders on this thread that have said themselves that that they've witnessed HE being done badly. The OP may be wrong but it's not outside the realms of possibility that she's right.

My freind also keeps making excuses for her kids such as oh they couldnt do that they dont have an education! Im there thinking well wasnt that your responsibility to ensure they had an education if your taking them out of school.

I totally get that some home schoolers do a great job and well done to you i just feel she hasnt and i feel bad for her kids.

Yes, basically. I know of a few homeschooled kids and they are being taught. Fine if a parent wants to do this for whatever reason if they can offer the education, activities not in the home - I know h/s kids can go to specific h/s 'groups' in lieu of school, do extra stuff like drama where they socialise, etc. Also older ones generally have some form of tutoring for GCSEs, etc. Not for me at all, but I can see why some do it. Just to leave them in front of tv/PS4 is not 'schooling' - the clue is in the name!!

School does not equal education.

If you have proof that she is not giving her children an adequate education, you can report them to the Education Welfare Officer at your LA.

If you have genuine concern for your friend, how about researching HE and offering your friend assistance and put her in touch with other HErs that are local to you. Perhaps make a list of all the free resources that are available (and yes there are lots, from libraries to MOOCs). Why not share some of your skills with them?

Your post does come across as contradictory (eg 'do nothing' and 'worksheets') and ignorant. HE kids do not need tutors, nor do they need to do exams - given that the eldest is only 16yo, I wouldn't expect any of them to have done exams, whether in school or otherwise!

So you have only known them a few months, and you're making this decision based on what they've done when you're over for coffee? And a few complaints she's made?

School isn't that important. Education is. There is a difference.

When someone is over to mine for coffee, we are not doing our home ed. Why? Because it's too distracting for the dcs. We plan our schedule around it. Of course, my friends know me well enough to know that education is very important to me, and I want my children to get a good education, so they know I make sure they are learning and progressing as best they can. Home ed doesn't need to be between 9 and 3.

I think if you have specific concerns, and if you actually are a friend, you will sit down with her and ask her about it. At least be up front and honest with her (although tactful is helpful too).

I had a friend (note - HAD) that had concerns about us home educating. It was because I wasn't available to go out and have coffee and go shopping at the drop of a hat anymore.

I have no objection in principle to the idea of home education, and I know not all schools are good for all children, but it sounds like incredibly hard work and at secondary level especially I can't understand how the average parent could even attempt to cover the curriculum without the help of tutors.

In school the child would be doing English, Maths, Biology, Physics, Chemistry, History, Geography, Music, Art, Computing, some sort of Technology, RE, PE, PSHE/Citizenship and at least one modern language, and would end up taking GCSEs in a lot of those subjects. Without English and Maths at grade C at least, there'd be very limited opportunities for post-16 education.

One HE does not represent all HE - just as one school does not represent all schools.

I'm sure there are lots of bad HE as well as good HE

I don't think you have all the details.

I know someone who home educated her 3 children. The youngest went to school for the GCSE year and A levels... she got brilliant grades and is now at a good university doing the course she wanted to. She also has lovely social skills and can cook and look after herself! The older children all have good careers. I'd say that was a success.

My own children go to school. They do daily sessions of an online Maths course by Carol Vorderman. She started it because she was shocked by the poor Maths tuition her own children were receiving. We've been doing it less than a year...2 children with SN who were over a year behind in Maths are now getting the best results in their classes (said by both their teachers who couldn't believe it!) A school education can be crap you know.

I also can't get over the person who said that a 16 year old with the abilities of a 10 year old is a failure. To quote Neil Gaimon "you don't pass or fail at being a person dear."

Pancakes Depends on when their birthday is but the majority of 16 year olds will have done GCSEs.