To think DH might be right (though it pains me to say it!)

[burgundyandgoldleaves]

Had a bit of an argument this morning. Do you think I am being unreasonable?

DH has said there is definitely an expectation that someone will be at home during the primary school years. (I was saying something about nativity plays.) I said he was wrong, and it was normal for both parents to work now. He said it was normal in theory but in practice it wasn't because in families where two parents worked they either had grandparents nearby and willing to help or the work was very part time - lunchtime supervisor or similar.

When I thought about it I wondered if he might actually be right. These threads about school plays and assemblies and even things like dropping children off at school seem to assume a parent or a relative will do it.

Or is he being unreasonable?

Eh ...? Your dh is most certainly wrong and being unreasonable.

Two working parents here. We use wraparound care. Just like everyone I work with who have primary school aged children.

I think it varies hugely by school. Where I am, there's an expectation that some mums (usually the ones with preschoolers or younger, or with more than two kids) will be around in the day, but that plenty will be at work. There's definitely still an assumption that it's mum who will not work or who will work part-time, rather than dad, though. And I definitely see more mums at drop off and pick up.

They do assume someone is at home. However the reality is that probably both parents are working.
However, because some will do reduced or flexible hours or shift work (or even mat leave), a parent may be able to go to these events then lending credence to the idea that someone is at home!
I know there are lots of sahp out there before I get my head bitten off but they are not the majority.

But primary schools are staffed by people working full time! Most of them have children themselves.

I work full time, DH works away Mon-Friday. My mum lives 5 mins away but we use breakfast/after school club and I use annual leave or TOIL to attend as many school/brownie/swimming things as I can.

DD's breakfast and after school club has a waiting list which says to me there's a lot of other parents in same boat.

He is being unreasonable unless it was his way of suggesting to you HE goes part time?

Don't fall out over it OP! You are both right (although he is coming across a little outdated!).
Many many parents work - it's a fact of life.
But it is worth trying to build in a little flexibility for the inevitable illnesses and all the events. It means so much to your child to have you there.
For secondary school there is zero daytime involvement expected from parents.

I don't think there is an expectation for one parent to be at home/ around. There is a wide variety of wrap around available and at our school options are often given re timings of meetings etc for parents who both work full time. I think people do what they feel is best for their family and that will vary greatly. I also accept sometimes choice doesn't come into it.

I agree that the expectation exists....the question is whether it is reasonable in light of the reality of many people's lives, if you see what I mean. I think that reality varies hugely, actually, so it's probably quite difficult to temper expectations as there is no "one size fits all". I am a SAHM and I know a lot of other SAHMs. I also know SAHDs, families where both parents work full time and ones where one is part time. I know people with very involved Grandparents....but others who aren't/are dead/are miles away. There are too many variables to cite any meaningful norm.

I agree with him.

Both me and dh work full time. I don't know many couples where both work full time and have little/no help from grandparents. Though they do exist, I assume.

Most couples I know have one person working reduced hours. Usually, but not always, the mother.

I find that schools do arrange things with the expectation that at least one parent is always available.

For example ds school play is next week. I know the date but do not know the time. Making it impossible to know if I can get out of work for a bit or not. When you point this out they seem baffled that you can't just turn up.

My kids have been in 3 primaries and they all seem the same.

The older your child gets the greater the % of parents in his class will work.

Yes, I think he's right about the expectation,but not the reality.

I work in a much sought after infant school. The head is a mother, her dc are now almost adults but they were 4 & 7 when she was appointed, so she's had a full on job all their lives. Her DH is also a professional.

Even so, she still thinks it's dreadful when curriculum meetings etc are poorly attended and she definitely does judge families who can't send someone to the nativity.

I think that sadly, hes right- and it shouldn't be the case, schools should be more inclusive of working parents, but they're not for the most part. Depending on the area you're in there's definitely a yummy mummy type expectation at primary level sometimes and it pisses me off royally. Secondary is a different matter, but primary, yes, I think he's right.

Primary Schools do function on the premise that there is a sahp available yes.

But in actual real life, that is far from the case.

So both things are true at the same time.

Hence the many threads about working parents juggling, and dilemmas to be solved.

I agree with your dh. There seem to be numerous events during the day for parents to attend. My dc are school age and I'm a sahm. I did go back to work for a brief period when my first was a baby. Logistically, I think it's much easier to work when your dc are babies and toddlers than it is when they are in primary school. During the school years you need to cope with assemblies, school plays, sports days, inset days, strike days etc... multiply that by however many children you have! It is also really hard to use annual leave to attend these events as most parents need to save their annual leave up for the school holidays!

In my son's class there are 22 children and only two have two parents who both work full time. Most have one ft parent and one pt. He's only year one though, so I guess as he gets further up the school there will be less baby siblings so less sahps.

Both my DH work full time in full on jobs, kids go to breakfast club & after school club & I prioritise activities that mean a lot to the kids I.e. Neither are bothered by sports day so I don't go, my Mum might if she's around but that is rare however I would never ever miss out on a school play / Xmas concert - I use holiday or work extra to make up the hours. Not easy but no real choice.

Not both my DH - I don't have two of them thank God, meant to say my DH and I

I have two children at primary school and there are no families that I am aware in either of my children's classes where both parents work full time. A lot depends on the practicalities I suppose. I live in a rural village. Two full time working parents just couldn't happen unless you had grandparents on hand, because there are no breakfast or after school clubs etc and a general lack of childcare. Anyone commuting to work would need to leave an hour before school drop off, so it just isn't possible for both parents to be working in full time jobs.

I suspect if I lived in a city it would be very different. More childcare options, shorter commute etc would make it much more practical for both parents to work full time.

Most of the people I know where both parents work full time or nearly full time have very good family support. I see many grandparents picking up from school on a regular basis.

Ask your DH about the tens of thousands of women who teach ... I imagine most of their partners work as well.

Your DH is right that there is that expectation but wrong that it's a reality for most people. I think when you're at the classroom door you forget all the people you're not seeing because they use childcare. As a childminder I'm aware of so many families who are only at school one day a week max, except for all those events they have to move heaven and earth to try to get to.

Infants school is so difficult for working parents because they command your presence during the school day so blinking often that even those who've managed to find work around school hours/terms have a really hard time. There's so much pressure because they do thoughtless things like letting all the kids go and hug their parent before they go back to the classroom, meaning if you don't get there your child will feel left out. I've gone to birthday assemblies for clients (because if they can work from home for a day they'd rather it was the actual birthday than the weekly assembly day), and occasional shows.

Junior school is much easier, secondary school no daytime presence required at all.

Lots of stay at home mums here and a fair few work part time. All my primary childrens friends mums don't work, bar one. All professionals.

I think it goes with the school. It irritates me the "pop in to see the artwork etc for half an hour before end of school. "

i remember a really snotty TA talking about one particular child who couldnt go swimming with the school, they wouldnt let him go without his parent because of his behaviour - but she was working so he couldnt go swimming! the TA was looking down her nose at the working mother
admittedly this was 10+ ago but even still, good on the mum for working

I wish I had said, like you to the TA at the time

I live in another country (they do things differently there), but very similar to any suburb really and everything is predicated on mummy being at home. It gets on my wick and did even when I was a Sahp.

In my old days, one or both parents took a morning to come to prize day, which was the last day of the school year.. but otherwise we just went to school. I've missed 5 events this term, and it's really tough on the kids when it seems as if ALL the others have adults there. They haven't, but the vast majority do. No idea how they do it. I've got another 2 things in the next 10 days and I'm going to both.

I'm impressed he's noticed, assuming he's not trying to start a chat about you donning a pinny if you aren't interested.