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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think DH might be right (though it pains me to say it!)

199 replies

burgundyandgoldleaves · 04/12/2016 09:57

Had a bit of an argument this morning. Do you think I am being unreasonable?

DH has said there is definitely an expectation that someone will be at home during the primary school years. (I was saying something about nativity plays.) I said he was wrong, and it was normal for both parents to work now. He said it was normal in theory but in practice it wasn't because in families where two parents worked they either had grandparents nearby and willing to help or the work was very part time - lunchtime supervisor or similar.

When I thought about it I wondered if he might actually be right. These threads about school plays and assemblies and even things like dropping children off at school seem to assume a parent or a relative will do it.

Or is he being unreasonable?

OP posts:
BaronessEllaSaturday · 04/12/2016 13:28

I take it that your DH was saying that running a toddler group on the weekend was a waste of time not you doing the franchise at all. If that is the case then he is right. Yes I am a working mother but I wouldn't attend a toddler group at a weekend. When I did attend toddler groups as a sahm it was for my child to interact and for myself to have adult conversation and as a working parent that just isn't needed. What my dd needs on a weekend is my undivided attention, she mixes with other children during the week with the childminder and I have my work colleagues.

ShutTheFuckUpBarbara · 04/12/2016 13:31

For example ds school play is next week. I know the date but do not know the time. Making it impossible to know if I can get out of work for a bit or not. When you point this out they seem baffled that you can't just turn up.

^yes to this!!

Another thing that really annoys me is when they plan a "come read with your child" or similar activity at, say, 10:30 on a Tuesday. The accompanying letter is usually very patronising, along the lines of "reading is very important and it would be great for your child to see you getting involved".

What I take from this letter is:
a. The school expects me not to have a job
b. The school think that I don't know how important reading is
c. The school thinks we don't read at home

I know I am especially prickly about this at the moment because I have missed a few events this year due to lack of notice and not enough annual leave left (because of school holidays) but it really drives me mad.

DH and I both work FT and the nearest grandparents are 2h away, and we are forever being guilt-tripped about missing school events

DinosaursRoar · 04/12/2016 13:31

Where we are, most have at least part time working parents or grandparents doing the school run. The only ones where there's 2 FT working parents/FT single parent have nannies, not using wrap around.

DailyMailSucksAss · 04/12/2016 13:33

estateagentfromhell the issue isn't about the rights and wrongs of stah parenting, it's with schools assuming the mum's going to be at home/available for every little whimsical thing the teacher decides is in the best interests of the child. You don't get the same inconsideration in private schools where out of school hours appointments are the usual course of events, so why in state schools?

Original poster
burgundyandgoldleaves · 04/12/2016 13:35

I don't know if it is sour grapes. I think it's hideous staying at home. It's dull, lonely and lends itself to making you dependent on staying with your husband due to finances whether you want to or not.

OP posts:
AdoraBell · 04/12/2016 13:36

My experience with schools, both here and abroad, is that they expect someone, usually the mother, to be available at zero notice.

Yes, the norm may be for both parents to work and use wrap around care, but some schools clearly haven't caught up.

OP I think neither is BU. Yes, there still persists an outdated expectation and yes, it is more likely that both parents work now.

Arfarfanarf · 04/12/2016 13:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PensionOutOfReach · 04/12/2016 13:49

Both of you are right.
A lot, if not most women are working now so yes they should not expect to have a parent at home for plays etc..

In reality, the entire school system is based on the assumption that there is a parent at home or some family nearby. Partly because they still haven't moved on and partly because it's much easier to work that way.
And tbf, a lot of people are still living near their family.

I would like to see that change though. As more and more women work (and work full time) it is time for things to change. For example by planning ahead all the dates for outings, nativity plays etc...

Original poster
burgundyandgoldleaves · 04/12/2016 13:51

I think a lot of people do live near their family for this reason though.

OP posts:
PensionOutOfReach · 04/12/2016 13:55

I think that deep down most parents know that having a parent around is best for the child during primary years

Sorry I will shout but NO NO NO.

What is essential are two parents that are happy and in a economically stable situation. Not to have one parent at home who then finds themselves unable to go back to work or can only go back to poorly paid jobs because they haven't beeing working for years and years.
Having two parents working full time does NOT stop these parents to spend time with their dcs, to read to them etc etc.

And in experience, the time when children are actually more likely to NEED one parent at home whe they come back home is whe they are TEENEAGERS. A time when they are more likely to go off the rails, the time when they still do need someone to be on the look out for them. And again, by experience this is much harder to do if you don't have a parent at home to do that.

PensionOutOfReach · 04/12/2016 13:57

YY there is this chicken and egg situation,
People chose to live close to family because it makes things easier, knowing the 'requirements' put onto them by schools.
Meanwhile schools have no incentive to change because actually most parents make do with the requirements anyway.

formerbabe · 04/12/2016 13:59

most people know deep down that having one parent around during the primary school years is in the best interests of the child

I actually think it's in the best interests of the whole family to have one parent at home. I think it's a dreadful state of affairs that parents are having to run themselves ragged and spread themselves so thinly. Just look at the number of threads on here about division of housework and chores. It's essentially because families with 2 working parents literally don't have the time to do everything. Please note, this is not a criticism of working parents...I've been one. People need to do what they have to do in order to survive but I agree it's sad so many don't have the choice.

SixthSenseless · 04/12/2016 14:00

I think the issue is your DH's attitude, not the way primary school is set up!

Though that presents problems for working parents, it's true.

Most of the families I was friends with who had two or more kids took the primary years away from work. Much less so the parents of only children, or where the child was the sibling of teens or grown up kids. And there were plenty of single mothers working and hiding the before and after clubs.

SixthSenseless · 04/12/2016 14:03

I have worked f/t throughout my DC's school life. As their father and I both considered, and genuinely behaved as if all parenting and household responsibilities were equal, I have not espe

FrancesHaHa · 04/12/2016 14:03

On the expectations aren't too bad here - London school, lots of parents working full time, lots of people not living near family.

However, every so often we get a random text reminding us about an assembly happening tomorrow at 10.30 - no way could most people make that, apart from those who work shifts, or at home with small children.

Plus a few weeks ago there was a letter about the Christmas disco - tickets available at 3.30 in the playground from a named person (obviously no clue who this person is as I don't do pick ups/ drop offs). I put it down to disorganisation more than expectation.

SixthSenseless · 04/12/2016 14:04

Sorry, not especially found it difficult. I did plenty of parenting, had a great time, and have my career and income. DC happy and doing well.

Bluntness100 · 04/12/2016 14:07

I've never witnessed such an expectation, we both worked full time and we used child minders. The school called our mobiles if they needed to. I can't imagine that expectation, the teachers and staff are parents too, and my daughters primary had a female head teacher as did one of her senior schools and they had children too.

I'm genuinely at a loss at how anyone would even communicate that expectation to me, the schools always had a mix of one parent either male or female at home or both parents working, there was no "norm" or expectation.

Nineloves1 · 04/12/2016 14:08

I think that deep down most parents know that having a parent around is best for the child during primary years

So whatever we say you think deep down we know you're correct.
Nope.

No family support. DH works 10 hour days, as do I three days a week. I am organized as hell, and have previously emailed the schools in September to ask if they could let me know the dates of the Christmas concerts so we can be there.

I increasingly think I need to be around in the evenings as they get older though, just to be there if needed

Original poster
burgundyandgoldleaves · 04/12/2016 14:08

But Bluntness, numerous posters have stated that despite being at work, teachers do see, almost semi surprised that parents are themselves at work!

OP posts:
Bluntness100 · 04/12/2016 14:13

I think that deep down most parents know that having a parent around is best for the child during primary years

EvenTheWind · 04/12/2016 14:14

Hi bluntness

With things like short notice events during the day i.e. Not appreciating a parent would need notice to book leave.

AcrossthePond55 · 04/12/2016 14:19

I think it's 'geographical'. I've lived in areas where having a SAHP was common and areas where it wasn't. In general, my experience was the more affluent (or politically conservative) the area, the more likely it was to be geared to the expectation of having a SAHP.

I do think that schools (regardless of which area they're in) are behind the times in realizing that there may not be a SAHP or a grandparent readily at hand. DH and I both worked and we were lucky enough to have GPs living nearby who were ready and able to step in for emergencies. Our jobs also had liberal family leave policies, which helped since the schools always seemed to schedule special events/assemblies during school hours. But there are more an more people who don't have that luxury.

I think your DH is a bit of a jerk. Firstly for having such an archaic attitude. Secondly for trying to stomp on your dream of running your own business. Is he afraid of you becoming financially independent?

Original poster
burgundyandgoldleaves · 04/12/2016 14:21

We had an argument this morning but I do think he might be right.

Because obviously in an ideal world you would do what you want. But the reality is, we DO have young children, we DON'T have support. So maybe someone does need to be at home?

OP posts:
EvenTheWind · 04/12/2016 14:24

Neither of us is at home, op.

If a child is sick or has a play, we manage it between us, is he prepared to do half?

formerbabe · 04/12/2016 14:26

Nonsense, how is it beneficial if they are at school all day for one of us to be sitting at home

I'm at home whilst my dc are at school. I can assure you I'm not just sitting around. I'm cooking, cleaning, washing, ironing, tidying, shopping etc so that when everyone is home there's as few chores to be done as possible.