To be so angry with nursery

[Rockingaround]

Hi all,
Not sure what to do, I only know that I'm so angry but not sure if I'm overreacting.

DS just turned 4 last weekend. I picked DS from his nursery (within primary school) yesterday. He started in September after being at pre school, his session is 8.45-11.45. His former and current teachers have said he's a really good boy, good at listening and following the rules etc

Anyway, at pick-up he was balling his eyes out, snotty, gasping - in a right state, in all honesty I have never seen him this upset.

One of the nursery staff said " We were making biscuits and none of the children ate a smartie except for DS so Miss X has decided he is not allowed a biscuit because of it".

After DS had calmed down he told me he'd eaten a smartie. They told him he wasn't allowed to eat it but he carried on making his biscuit. Only at the end of the session when they were filling out the biscuits did they say he wasn't allowed to take his home because he'd eaten a smartie. I asked if they'd warned him that would happen if he ate a smartie and he said no.

I couldn't speak to them at that moment as I was so angry, I'm thinking g of writing a letter....? What would you do?

I'm doing his birthday party today but I'll check back in later. Thank you

"Miss X is not very approachable"

That alone would make me wary of this nursery. All the staff at DD3's playgroup were pleasant, cheerful, kind and approachable people, and not once did I ever see a child there made upset to the point of sobbing and gasping by being "punished" (I helped out there more than once). It made for a good atmosphere for both children and staff, and I was more than happy for DD3 to attend. One where staff are unapproachable - no way. Nursery and playgroup are voluntary - I'd be looking elsewhere, or keeping my 4 year old (in fact DD3 didn't start at playgroup till she was 4.5 anyway) at home with me.

Sorry I'm trying to read through again to find insancerre's post? Can someone copy and paste it?

Yes there has been other issues. My DC's have Jewish heritage, we're not religious and don't practice but our school is hugely multicultural and they celebrate all of the religious festivals. So for Rosh Hashanah DS helped me cut up and wash some apples, we put in paper ramekins and a bottle of honey for his friends at nursery. I discussed it with Miss X the day before and she seemed happy and encouraged us to do this.

The next day DS came out of nursery crying and said that no-one wanted to eat his apples. One of the nursery support workers told me that they have their own apples in school thank you. I said Miss X had encouraged us to do it. The support worker then said "oh well we can keep them and do it tomorrow". I said the apples will be brown by then.

I later approached Miss X who said to DS in a really patronising and condescending tone (she didn't address me at all) that "the other Jewish child in the class wasn't there that day as she has swimming so they'd be doing the celebration the following day"

I was just and let it go and reassured DS they'd do it the following day with their own sodding apples

Next day he comes out with an apple on a stick dipped in chocolate and sprinkles?!?

On another occasion a little gi was waiting wint the class for her mum, she was fine until she saw mum, then started crying. Miss X said she wasn't allowed to leave until she stopped crying, "you have a choice, stop crying and go with mum or stay here".

Another child (who's the youngest) displays really challenging behaviour and his mother has been told that if his behaviour doesn't improve he won't be allowed to come to nursery anymore. He isn't 4 until June.

I've moved my DS on from his pre-school to the primary school nursery and we're expecting another baby in February. I just don't know where he'd go if we took him out. Aside from these issues, he is very happy there, has lots of friends and runs in happily each day.

"On another occasion a little gi was waiting wint the class for her mum, she was fine until she saw mum, then started crying. Miss X said she wasn't allowed to leave until she stopped crying, "you have a choice, stop crying and go with mum or stay here"."

Really? I'd like to see her try that with any child of mine!

You really sound like you are trying to demonise this 'miss X' to be honest. All of this is just normal everyday stuff, that happens in lots of education settings all over the country.

You really need to get a grip. How on earth are you going to cope when your DS is in proper school.

My DF is a ta in key stage 1. Some of the things she tells me the parents complain about is so ludicrous you wouldn't believe it.

You're also massively drip feeding as well OP.

I'd be concerned about the issues with this teacher you've described OP. OP, It doesn't sound like this teacher is very nice at all- and I would have a fit if someone told my child she couldn't leave with me if she was distressed. That's just mean. Kids also don't cope well with delayed punishments, as other people have noted.

Without outing myself, the type of ECE I attended, and my child now attends, encourages a child-led approach to education and a completely non-violent (in all its forms, including emotional) approach to dealing with unwanted behaviour which is borne out by the research.

I'm not intending to drip feed or demonise, CarShare asked if there were any other issues, I just answered in context.

On another occasion a little gi was waiting wint the class for her mum, she was fine until she saw mum, then started crying. Miss X said she wasn't allowed to leave until she stopped crying, "you have a choice, stop crying and go with mum or stay here"."

Very, very unpleasant approach.

Who cares about drip-feeding. That helps to build up a picture of how they operate. It's not good.

There is absolutely not a chance that I'd send a child of mine there.

Thanks OP for the context. She doesn't sound very kind or nurturing. Maybe get clear in your head what you'd like to say and actually say it out loud so it sounds the way you want it to and go and have the conversation. You can't influence how she will react to your concerns but you can stick to your point and make it clear that you felt her approach was heavy handed.

Can't find the post by insancerre but from memory it was to ask if he was so badly behaved it warranted not allowing him to take his biscuit home and telling her you felt it was heavy handed (I think, baby with hand foot and mouth on my hands so detail might not be spot on after a busy night!).

I especially don't like that she wouldn't allow the child to go home with its mother until crying stopped- it's so common for kids to have a cry when their mum appears at the end of a long day and isn't 'naughty', just an outlet for emotions/tiredness they struggle to express otherwise.

As nursery is not compulsory, I would have a legal right to sign out and remove my child from there at any time. If said nursery then refused to have my child back, then so be it - with a shitty attitude like that, I wouldn't want them there anyway.

Tgere's a world of difference denying a child cake because he hit someone to penalising a child by taking away the thing he created simply because he ate one smartie. It seems extreme and unreasonable to me- in the light of the other things you have said about this place I would have a gentle word as others have suggested just to clarify situation - however whilst most staff are lovely there are some nursery teachers who, shock horror, really do not like/ cope well with kids. If you have even the slightest inkling that this is so get your child out of there ASAP. Everyone can have a bad day/ make a wrong call , but if this is how nursery is being run regularly please look around because there are some wonderful ones that really understand and like children and have studied child development for the specific stage they work with. Sounds to me like this one might be used to working with older children.

Err why did they give out the smarties before they made the biscuits? Asking for trouble! Anyway, in EYFS each child should be making their own buscuits, so if he chooses to eat his smarties rather than decorate his biscuits that is entirely up to him! This sounds more like teacher led, teacher do 'cookery' that hardly involves the kids at all. They just watch and stick stuff in at the end. Sorry but seen it at local school and it really ticks me off.

I get my nursery kids to do everything, including cracking the eggs. (And then fish out the shell). You can see them thinking 'you're going to let me actually crack an egg!?' They love it.

I work with under fives in my home and I wouldn't dream of withholding the cookie. I would just state that if everybody ate one then there might not be enough left to decorate with. There's many more important rules to follow in life!

That's incredibly cruel, I've a child similar age and would go postal if they did that in her nursery, I'm surprised he was the only one to take a smartie in a bunch of 3/4 year olds.. if a parent did that I'd find it very cruel never mind the nursery, he was singled out and excluded for doing something minor that for God's sake you'd have to expect.. as a previous poster said, I'd find it hard to make biscuits without a smartie finding its way into my gob. Yep straight in tomorrow and give them a good talking to, that's not how he ins treated at home and it's now how you expect him to be treated there.

Taking a smartie or not taking a smartie I'd of given him a cookie! He's 4 years old fgs. I would of asked him to apologise for taking the smartie then said seeing as you've apologised you can take a cookie. If I was OP I'd be fuming (and demanding a cookie).

You can't expect a 4 year old to take such a harsh punishment. Anyone who refuses to give a 4 year old a biscuit because he took 1 smartie is off their rocker or just plain mean!

Has Miss X been doing this very long (ask her! With a head tilt).

I work in early years and have experience of a lot of groups... therefore a lot of children of this age. When we cook I remind them that we don't lick our fingers. We are not eating the raisins now etc. Over the years I have only had a few... and I mean a few... that without very close supervision would not have had their head in the mixing bowl! They are 4 ffs and 5 year olds are not that much better!

Ask how this fits in with their behaviour policy... ask how upsetting a child to this degree fits in with their personal, social and emotional scaffolding... ask if cooking with smarties fits in with the healthy eating guidelines (they'll love that.)

Then find a nursery with a curriculum lead that has a clue.

(Very VERY cross on your behalf)

Oh...YANBU!!!

Oh and OP... the stuff you have described is absolutely NOT going on in educational settings all over the country, all the time... not in those who hope to get a decent OFSTED report its not!

Jeez!

Miss X needs to watch the programme The Secret Life of A Four Year Old. Fascinating insight into child development -- impulse control etc.
A wise teacher does not set up her pupils to fail and you are certainly doing that if you expect 100% compliance when it comes to sweets etc.
Sounds as if DS heard the do not eat message but maybe was too absorbed to register what the consequences would be -- ridiculously harsh consequences, too.
I'd be worried about what Miss X might decide to do/say next.

Going on the sad cloud yes, taking away biscuit no. This is draconian. I wouldn't expect such a severe punishment in KS1 even. You need to talk to the Head or Deputy, not the class teacher. What is their punishment system? Usually it's a warning or two then losing playtime or going on a sad cloud.

I would speak to the head. Ridiculous and mean behaviour and regarding the telling a 3/4 year old that they can't go home if they don't stop crying, that is just plain inappropriate. This woman clearly isn't made for teaching role. A teacher of that age group shpuld be making the kids feel happy; loved etc.

Sorry for the typos!

I have worked with 4 year olds and I echo everything ilongfor posts just above mine.

MRs X should not be working with young children, she does not understand them and her behaviour towards your son and others is bloody cruel IMO.

Sending a child home with food they had prepared themselves in order to celebrate one of their festivals is so, so out of order, as is the biscuit incident and her telling a child to stop crying before they were allowed home.

If I were you I'd make a list of the incidents you have witnessed and go and speak to the HT.

Surely all it should mean was that he didn't have a smartie to decorate his biscuit with?

At that age the teacher might have been better giving the smarties out after the biscuits were ready to decorate - I'm 63 and I doubt I could have kept my hands off stray smarties . . . (mmmmmmm . . . . smaaaaaarties . . . nomnomnom)