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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be so angry with nursery

340 replies

Rockingaround · 19/11/2016 10:05

Hi all,
Not sure what to do, I only know that I'm so angry but not sure if I'm overreacting.

DS just turned 4 last weekend. I picked DS from his nursery (within primary school) yesterday. He started in September after being at pre school, his session is 8.45-11.45. His former and current teachers have said he's a really good boy, good at listening and following the rules etc

Anyway, at pick-up he was balling his eyes out, snotty, gasping - in a right state, in all honesty I have never seen him this upset.

One of the nursery staff said " We were making biscuits and none of the children ate a smartie except for DS so Miss X has decided he is not allowed a biscuit because of it".

After DS had calmed down he told me he'd eaten a smartie. They told him he wasn't allowed to eat it but he carried on making his biscuit. Only at the end of the session when they were filling out the biscuits did they say he wasn't allowed to take his home because he'd eaten a smartie. I asked if they'd warned him that would happen if he ate a smartie and he said no.

I couldn't speak to them at that moment as I was so angry, I'm thinking g of writing a letter....? What would you do?

I'm doing his birthday party today but I'll check back in later. Thank you

OP posts:
CarShare · 19/11/2016 18:35

I agree inthenick.

I'd also prefer my DD to be taught by someone closer to the teacherbob side of things so that she has the opportunity to learn in an environment where kids are relatively well behaved and the teacher has control.

I know this is nursery, so a little different and perhaps the punishment was a little harsh.
A good cuddle and a fun weekend should sort it out.

If you're usually in agreement with how the nursery care for your DS I think I'd let this one go and reinforce the importance of listening carefully to instructions at home.

petitpois55 · 19/11/2016 18:37

OP, you're going to cringe with embarrassment when you look back in a few years and think this was an issue. I'm cringing for you now. Blush

Nanny0gg · 19/11/2016 18:43

Um. TeacherBob - I used to teach. (retired). Not nursery age though. I was't exactly considered 'weak'

And the best teacher I ever worked with had her class in the palm of her hand, they did what she expected and never shouted (not saying you do).
But she was kind. And I happen to think that's an important part of teaching, especially with young children.

TeacherBob · 19/11/2016 18:51

And the best teacher I ever worked with had her class in the palm of her hand,

Same here

they did what she expected and never shouted (not saying you do).

I don't shout, I don't need to

But she was kind. And I happen to think that's an important part of teaching, especially with young children.

At which point did I say I wasn't kind. I am the most relaxed teacher and have the most fun. My class genuinally believe that Friday is the saddest day of the week. We laugh all through the day. We also dance. behaviour is exemplery and progress is outstanding (from 16% predicted to pass, to a 80% pass rate).
And I get all the because all the children buy into what we believe as a team. We decide the rules together and we follow them.

Being strict doesn't = being unkind.
Infact, there is an argument that being strict is kinder because every single child knows where they stand and what is expected.
And due to that, the rules are less strict because the expectations are very high.

My most important rule is 'we will make mistakes' and it is underlined several times. It is a rule that we refer to a LOT (especially with one of my SEN children). The children know they will make mistakes and they know I will make mistakes. They also know we will deal with the mistakes and move on.

I have a class of 5 year olds that will tell me if the work is too easy (or hard) and will challenge themselves. A class of 5 year olds that will make mistakes, accept the consequences and move on from it. A class of 5 year olds that manage themselves in a way that most adults can't manage.
I am extremely proud of each and every one of them, and that is in no small part, to the high expectations that are in place. They meet them.

Don't presume you know what kind of teacher I am.

Trifleorbust · 19/11/2016 18:59

Lovely post, TeacherBob. Couldn't agree more. Boundaries are kind.

Nanny0gg · 19/11/2016 19:01

Don't presume you know what kind of teacher I am.

I don't. But don't presume that your way is the only way.

Nanny0gg · 19/11/2016 19:02

And of course boundaries are necessary.

But they need to be reasonable and workable. And in this particular instance, with the info we've had from the OP, I don't think they were.

ThoraGruntwhistle · 19/11/2016 19:06

If he was just told not to eat the smartie because it would result in not being allowed the biscuit, and he did it anyway, that's when it should've been made clear that he had forfeited the biscuit. They shouldn't let him finish making it and wait til home time to tell him he wasn't having it. Only just turned 4 is very young though and it's pretty mean if it really happened the way the child thinks it did.

insancerre · 19/11/2016 19:07

Agree teacherbob
I'm with you on that approach
I'm firm but fair and don't need to shout. I have a look that can stop bad behaviour across the room and I don't give in to tears
I work with 2-4 year olds and I have high expectations of them too
One of my key children once told his mum that for Christmas he wanted an insancerre so he could have one at home too

TeacherBob · 19/11/2016 19:09

I don't. But don't presume that your way is the only way.

208 posts and not one has said 'there is this way or there is this way'
You just chose to single me out.

But they need to be reasonable and workable. And in this particular instance, with the info we've had from the OP, I don't think they were.

The ONLY info we know is the child broke a rule and faced a consequence. We don't know any details because the OP didn't ask.
She did ask a 4 year old, but that is the same 4 year old that you are arguing doesn't follow simple rules, so how can he be expected to remember a timeline (or even be honest about it)

TeacherBob · 19/11/2016 19:10

If he was just told not to eat the smartie because it would result in not being allowed the biscuit, and he did it anyway, that's when it should've been made clear that he had forfeited the biscuit. They shouldn't let him finish making it and wait til home time to tell him he wasn't having it.

We don't know if that is what he was told. We are guessing.

TeacherBob · 19/11/2016 19:10

One of my key children once told his mum that for Christmas he wanted an insancerre so he could have one at home too

That is sooo cute

ThoraGruntwhistle · 19/11/2016 19:15

Agreed Bob, we don't know if that is the case. If he had been clearly warned of the consequence from the beginning, fair enough. If it happened the way the OP thinks it did, then it's unfair.

Trifleorbust · 19/11/2016 19:21

Thora: I'm not sure why it's unfair if he didn't know the consequence beforehand. I get that it would be more upsetting for him, but why unfair? He still knew the rule.

TeacherBob · 19/11/2016 19:21

Do you really think the teacher would only tell the kids the rule after it has been broken?

ThoraGruntwhistle · 19/11/2016 19:27

I think it's quite possible that a teacher might think it's obvious that if they tell the children not to eat a sweet that's going on a biscuit they don't get their biscuit, but that a four year old wouldn't make that connection unless it's spelled out to them, yes. The child could quite easily fault to grasp that no sweet for top of biscuit = no biscuit.

DeadGood · 19/11/2016 19:36

"arethereanyleftatall Sat 19-Nov-16 11:10:08
I think the absolute first rule of parenting/teaching is to follow through on your punishments. Even if as soon as you've said it, you're thinking 'fuck, that was way too harsh'.
If it was too harsh, (like this one), I'd still follow through, then try and make it up to them later."

Wow, I disagree with absolutely everything in this post. The first rule of parenting relates to punishment? Unbelievable. As for following through on a disproportionate punishment and then "making it up to them later" ... Words fail me.

crashdoll · 19/11/2016 19:41

On the whole, I have noticed that some teachers on MN go out their way to defend a teacher they've never met. That said, the OP wants to write a complaint letter on the basis of a 4 year old who are not always known for their accurate recollection of information.

Masketti · 19/11/2016 19:41

There's authoritarian and authoritative styles and this smacks of authoritarian to me. Maybe the teacher could have removed a Smartie from his biscuit to compensate but going to all the effort to decorate it not to be able to eat a sweet treat is cruel. And I speak as the mother of a nearly 4 year old at preschool who would have a tantrum if you did this to her.

HowMuchDoWeNeed · 19/11/2016 19:47

"They told him not to do something. He did it anyway. He made the wrong choice. I am of the view personally that it's a harsh punishment but he is in their charge whilst he is at school and they need to run things in the way they think best. He hasn't been shouted at aggressively or beaten - it's just one of those things."

Disagree.

Imagine these two scenarios.

  1. At home, with mum, DS asks for a biscuit, she says no. DS gets a bit upset, mum stands her ground.

"Just one of those things"? Absolutely.

  1. At nursery, having fun baking, is told not to eat any of the smarties, DS does anyway, but carries on. At the end of the lesson, he is told he can't have the biscuit he has made. He's embarrassed in front of his classmates, misses out on something that everyone else has, and is denied the spoils of something he has worked to make.

"Just one of those things" - I don't think so. These are actually the kinds of events that children tend to remember. My best friend 'Sophie' can still recall the sense of injustice she experienced, age 4, when she was looked after by a childminder who gave her own children treats but Sophie.

This event actually made Sophie's mother lose faith in the childminder, and change her career so she could work different hours and look after Sophie herself.

Small event, big consequences - children don't have the same perspective that we do. It's not the end of the world, but as another poster eloquently said, all that this sort of thing achieves is that the child learns that adults mete out punishments arbitrarily.

Trifleorbust · 19/11/2016 19:53

How much: The punishment wasn't arbitrary. It would be arbitrary if it was applied to him but not to other children who broke the rule. He was the only one. It would be arbitrary if they repeated the activity next week and he ate the smartie again, but this time they let him have the cookie. It would be arbitrary if they were permitted to eat smarties last time and no-one told them not to this time.

None of those things happened.

Your only argument seems to be that he was at nursery, not at home, so it was a bigger deal to him. Well, nursery isn't home. Managing 30 kids isn't the same as looking after one. Teachers can't be as lenient as parents or they will have chaos on their hands, and that isn't good for the kids.

TeacherBob · 19/11/2016 20:44

On the whole, I have noticed that some teachers on MN go out their way to defend a teacher they've never met. That said, the OP wants to write a complaint letter on the basis of a 4 year old who are not always known for their accurate recollection of information.

Which teacher is defending a teacher they haven't met?

MyDarlingWhatIfYouFly · 19/11/2016 20:58

You are. You have stated on earlier posts that the rule and consequence (note consequence) were in place beforehand when you have no evidence. You assume the teacher must have explained the consequence before he ate the sweet, even though the child stated she had not.

sj257 · 19/11/2016 21:10

I've worked in that kind of setting and I wouldn't have been able to do that. I don't think it's the right approach at all. Perhaps a stern word that not following instructions might mean they do not get chosen to bake next time.

He didn't hurt anyone or be purposefully mean.

Inthenick · 19/11/2016 21:31

Some times things aren't fair. If only more kids were taught that and how to move on we'd have a lot more resilient adults about.

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