To be upset with school?

[PointyJat]

My ds started school in September. In his class is another boy (I'll call him Fred) who randomly kicked another child, causing bruises in the first week. Yesterday I was called in as Fred had punched my son in the playground, my son was upset and didn't fight back, school says it was a random act (ie they hadn't been arguing or playing, Fred just walked up and hit him).

His teacher said they are watching Fred carefully and he is being assessed. This morning, I found out from other parents that at least four other children have been hurt by Fred, each time it's random, eg one girl was hit in the eye during class, one boy was pushed over when he walked out of the toilet. School didn't tell me about all these other incidents.

I'm really upset that Fred is continuing to hurt children and the teachers don't have a handle on it. I need to see the teacher again to find out what's happening now i know about all the other incidents.They need to protect the children from injury but aibu to think the school haven't done enough so far? It's not just little pushes or shoves

Devilish, I think your problem is that you dealt with issues by way of complaint. If you had dealt with the failure to assess by making a formal request for an EHC needs assessment, you would have been able to go to the tribunal to sort matters out. I completely agree that putting in official complaints is slow, which is why it is better to threaten judicial review when the LA is acting unlawfully.

In the long term it may be that Fred gets the help he needs but in the short term the school have a duty to keep the other DCs safe.

I had a Fred in my class and until the support was in place it was very difficult for Fred, me and the other DCs. My Fred could not cope with the playground or anything unstructured and would lash out very quickly and it wasn't just a slap. So I did keep him in at playtime, I had to keep the other DCs safe.

However, when playtime was over a TA would take Fred and a few other DCs into the playground for some structured playing and running around. Fred knew that if he "misbehaved" they'd be right back inside and his next playtime cancelled. It worked well in the short term.

Sadly, even when full support was in place, Fred struggled in mainstream and as he got bigger he got stronger. Even with a 1 - 1 and awareness of triggers Fred could be totally unpredictable. New triggers arrived almost weekly and a TA was badly hurt trying to restrain Fred when he attacked another DC out of the blue. The HT had to exclude him for everyone's safety.

He coped much better in a special school with smaller classes and more support staff and was much, much happier.

We have a Fred, been in the system for 13 years, previous school and the LA stated "no academic concerns" but I've been raising academic concerns from the beginning. Staff who cannot see anything wrong because of a lack of knowledge or understanding cause more problems than they solve particularly when they ignore the advice given to them by the professionals that are involved with the children. Whilst I appreciate that teachers etc cannot know everything about every illness, disability or difference to ignore professional advice re strategies, assistive technology, Therapies etc will only make matters.

To deliberately blame the parents or give parents wrong information, to deliberately give parents advice such as " your child is not severe enough to qualify for a Statutory Assessment, therefore he/she will not get any help so there's no point applying" is counterproductive. I have no doubt that this still goes on.

LA's are still disregarding the law.

Serendipity I'm not talking about EHC assessments. My son has had a statement since 2004 and has band 8+ funding via his EHCP - I am talking in general the reality of dealing with LA's. I have spent the last 15 years kicking off everytime they ignore their Duties (actually not every time - I pick my battles) - and it's not quite the simple straightforward process you imagine.

It's great you know the theoretical processes but LA don't play ball. And remember while busying yourself holding institutions to account you also have to deal with the daily needs of your child.

So if waiting times were brought down why am I waiting six months? It hardly seems fair that someone who appealed in September would have an appeal heard before mine that was placed in May
Likewise though 12 weeks doesn't really give parents time to source independent reports and a recommended educational law firm which is needed in a lot of cases to get a statement/ EHCP that's worth the paper it is written on. In my current appeal we are currently negotiating over an hour's support at ds's appeal LA and my solicitor were slogging it out over twenty minutes (it needs to be that detailed to make it worth having). SOSSEN and IPSEA are incredibly difficult to get hold of and it takes time to be allocated a worker to your case. I envisage lots of cases going to Tribunal with ill prepared parents whilst LA's go tooled up with the solicitors they employ purely to prevent parents getting support for their child

It is all theory in your case though Serendipity I can quote the Code of Practise better than the LA and the LGO it doesn't mean the LA follow it or the LGO understand it, it's there in name only.
When LA refused to amend ds's statement (even though it was a transition review and it is required by law) they also refused to issue a letter saying they refused to amend the statement and without that you can't issue an appeal. They twisted and turned and stalled to halt the JR application at that point.
When discussing placements instead of the independent one I wanted they suggested one not yet built, one that wasn't a post 16 establishment and his current one who had already said they couldn't meet his needs and it wasn't an efficient use of resources and him being there would be detrimental to the other students (all three reasons that were needed to prove a school unsuitable).
They then issued a statement that neither I nor the solicitor ever saw (they sent it to the school) naming the school that had already said no it was this that gave us leave for JR on the grounds that the decision was irrational we couldn't do it in the months previously because the LA wouldn't issue the necessary paperwork to do so.
We then needed to employ a Barrister and got the the date for JR. On the morning of the day before JR (both solicitor and barrister believed they would fold before then because their unlawful actions would be exposed but they didn't) I phoned the independent school at 9.30 and LA had phoned at 9am saying ds would definitely not be placed in that school indicating the JR was going ahead as they were pressing on with the school they had named. At 11.30 solicitor contacted me to say LA were now naming the independent school but were arguing over twenty minutes would I concede and agree ten minutes I said yes but in the time it took for me to reply the LA agreed the twenty minutes (it was purely bluster and being a sore loser rather than any intent) They notified the school three days later that ds would be placed there and to start transition arrangements.

Insanity that is appalling. You sound like a fighter but so many parents of kids with SEND are ill-equipped to deal with tribunals, JR , etc.

Shurely you are right but even when you have the statement/EHCP in place the fight goes on because schools don't have the knowledge, experience, resources and sometimes willingness or ability to deliver the support documented. I don't think there will be a parent out there who has a child with a statement or EHCP whose child hasn't at one point or another been short changed in the support given purely because support is in short supply and teachers use allocated support elsewhere. I've no doubt whatsoever that in OP's case if there was a child with an EHCP in that class that child's support would be siphoned off to support Fred especially if the child with the EHCP was less challenging or disruptive.
It happens so often that I think schools believe it is acceptable and reasonable the only reason it didn't happen with ds was he was always the most challenging pupil and it doesn't happen with dd because the school messed up and there was a safeguarding failure and so now I have them by the short and curlies

Could I just suggest that people remember that different LAs have different amounts of money available for education per child, and also that some may be better organised/more efficient than others. Just because someone's experience doesn't match yours doesn't mean they are wrong.

Our struggle to get appropriate support for our ds almost cost me my job, my home and my marriage, we were taken to the brink of destruction by a school and an LA that would not obey the Law, my ds at the age of nine wished he was dead, he had reached crisis point and still the school would not adhere to the terms of his statement, he was illegally excluded, victimised and discriminated against and the LA did nothing, it got to the point where we were looking at residential schools in different counties 1 school that was suggested was at the other end of the country! But to send a suicidal child to a residential school wouldn't have solved anything and would probably have made things much worse and I refused to consider it as a realistic option. We settled on a school that is not actually the correct type of school that ds needs but what this school has done for our ds has been astounding, we as a family have been helped tremendously by this school just because they have done everything they are required to do by law, meanwhile the LA have still been breaking the law.

Today our ds is incredibly different to what he was all those years ago, quite simply because his needs are being met most of the time, he is now far less likely to lash out but he is more likely to self harm.

It's tricky. Any parent who has a child with problems sees beyond those issues and knows all the good things about that child.

But to those who that child is physically harming, those qualities are drastically overshadowed.

There's often calls for empathy from the side of those parents whose kids are at risk, but sometimes little empathy heading back in that direction from the parents of Freds.

I had a Fred (female) in my primary school and she made my life hell for a long time, mainly because my mum was a kind sort and told me that the child had social issues/a mild LD that made her behaviour difficult. But that meant I had my stuff stolen, was manipulated constantly and forced to play with a girl who was awful to me. She essentially bullied me and I felt I had no voice because the girl had these problems.

There must be a compromise that helps both parties. I don't think any child should go to school and be mentally prepared that they might get hit by somebody else. There should be an intervention.

Achristmascactus - I don't understand what more you think the parents of Freds should do. There will be a few that don't care but will be true of parents of any type of child.
Many parents of Freds spend large amounts of time and money trying to secure the provision that means their child is able to cope better in school. Some Freds will hurt themselves as much or more than they hurt others.

Achristmascactus Fundamentally if the parents are fighting for support and supporting their children at home when the child is in school it is they who should be supporting him/her. I cannot address behaviours I don't see and for ds it wouldn't have been appropriate to issue consequences at home for behaviours in school anymore than it would have been appropriate for school to punish ds for behaviours at home.
My other children have all been slapped /pinched/kicked/ scratched/ bitten at some point in their school lives (often by children with no SEN) because it happens when there are large numbers of children in one area. Thankfully because of ds they are pretty hardy and empathetic and bore no malice to those doing the hitting and because of my experiences with ds I definitely didn't blame their parents.
I think it's pretty unrealistic to expect that thirty children in one room being supervised by one or two adults will behave perfectly all the time and pretty hysterical to be up in arms if occasionally a child lashes out. My children aren't perfect so I don't expect or demand that others are either.

They're not always highly trained and they're not always professional either. SENCO and Pastoral Care can be total chocolate fireguards.

I bet Fred's parents, are the kind who believe that children should never be told off. And this is what happens.....

So many parents, don't seem to parent these days, it does my head in!

No-one is suggesting any child has to be 'perfect'. But if one child is routinely smacking/pinching/kicking/punching other children at school then someone needs to address it - and quickly. children don't go to school to get assaulted. Fred might have additional needs or he might just be badly behaved. Either way, the assaulting of other children needs to stop. Sharpish.