To be upset with school?

[PointyJat]

My ds started school in September. In his class is another boy (I'll call him Fred) who randomly kicked another child, causing bruises in the first week. Yesterday I was called in as Fred had punched my son in the playground, my son was upset and didn't fight back, school says it was a random act (ie they hadn't been arguing or playing, Fred just walked up and hit him).

His teacher said they are watching Fred carefully and he is being assessed. This morning, I found out from other parents that at least four other children have been hurt by Fred, each time it's random, eg one girl was hit in the eye during class, one boy was pushed over when he walked out of the toilet. School didn't tell me about all these other incidents.

I'm really upset that Fred is continuing to hurt children and the teachers don't have a handle on it. I need to see the teacher again to find out what's happening now i know about all the other incidents.They need to protect the children from injury but aibu to think the school haven't done enough so far? It's not just little pushes or shoves

Serendipity: All that may be true, but we don't know where the school are in that process or how much success they are having. The boy may not even have SN. If he does, it would still be impossible to fund 1:1 with an additional 6k. You make some good points but there are too many unknowns here.

Maybe, Fred should be kept in at break times since that's when it sounds like he's harming other children? It won't hurt his education, but it's not giving him the oppertunity to hurt other peoples children. He could have a TA or teacher sit with him in a classroom and do an activity or something like they do when its too wet to play outside.

Most children with developmental disabilities are calmed by physical activity in fresh air, so break indoors wouldn't make sense but a quiter space outdoors with 1:1 for break time may make sense, like access to the forest school & maybe some sensory circuits

Haven't rtft but what a horror suggestion to keep the 4 year old in and make him miss playING outside because he has behavioural issues.

We send children to school when they aare much younger than kids starting school across Europe. We have to accept they will have infant levels of control and some will still have poor control over their emotional behaviour.

Segregation. What a wonderful way to help sort problems!

Awful suggestion but keeping difficult kids inside is often what actually happens. With predictable knock on effects to their behaviour in the afternoons as they've had no chance to run around outside.
If a child needs 1-1 support to access school they will get it if the parents/school apply and know what they're doing. That is what top up funding is for. Schools are underfunded but all children have the right to access an education. You wouldn't accept a school saying they couldn't afford ramps for a wheelchair user so why accept that there are no funds to help kids with invisible disabilities? A Ta wouldn't be able to spot every incident but they would (if they are any good) be able to help identify triggers and help the child find more appropriate ways to respond and intervene before a lot of incidents happen.

We have this in our class and it's still going on in year three. Dangerous destructive behaviour from the same child nearly every day.Of course I've told my child not to play with him, he's sick of getting injured at school. Yes we've spoken to school, yes we've asked about safeguarding, no has it made one iota of difference. I feel desperately sorry for the child in question but I need to help my child survive the next three years without significant physical or mental scars. The system is broken and every child is suffering.

This thread has made me sad. When we had our Fred incidents we just spoke to the teacher, learnt about how to help them get along (including educating dc about Fred's triggers) and worked on that. Fred is now a good friend and visits our home for play dates. He has some issues but god knows we all have our issues. Tolerance pays dividends... if we had advised dc to stay away from Fred our lives would have one less friend.

Another Fred I knew of who got this witch hunt treatment... well after the mum couldn't take anymore ( and my oh my she tried to not let those bullies win) she moved Fred to a different school - same town, less than a mile away. Now Fred is blossoming, she is bubbly and her anger issues have improved.

pointy if the witch hunt is starting around the school gates, could you and the other parents turn it into something positive rather than a negative for Fred - like, instead of a petition to remove or segregate him, start a petition (with the teachers/parent's approval ) to lobby for funding for a TA. Or fundraise the 6k for the school to meet the first part of the TA fee that they would need.

We had something similar locally - a child with very complex medical needs and equipment started in the local school. The village fundraised extensively to fund a fully equipped SEN / Medical area and even funded a medically trained carer for him.

It's surprisingly easy to explain SN to a child. I did with my 4yo so he knows when the Fred in his class lashes out, it's because he is learning differently due to his special needs. He got it right away when I explained that yes, it's naughty but Fred is still learning, he doesn't mean to hurt and to tell a teacher if it happens again.

It doesn't take longer than months to organise assessment. If the child has SEN and may need an EHC Plan, the LA must by law agree to assessment withn six weeks and carry out and complete the assessment within approximately ten weeks after that. If an EHC Plan is justified, the LA must issue the Plan within 20 weeks of the original request for assessment.
Only in the world of theory does it work like that!
In the real world, it could take months to get an EP report, that would make recommendations that the school would be expected to put into place. Other referral may be made. Any attempt to apply for an EHCP is likely to be refused before time has been given for the school to manage and support his needs.
And LAs are consistently failing to complete the process in the required 20 weeks.

The problem is that Fred is hurting others randomly.
I think that the problem is, Fred is hurting other children and there is a lack of understanding as to why. It's not random, there is a reason. The staff don't understand what triggers him and how to help him manage those difficulties.
That can only be properly assessed by someone observing him in the classroom. (who knows what they are doing)
My DS was Fred - regularly being accused of hurting other kids for no reason. Every single time when I got all of the information I was able to work out what had caused it. There were certain situations that they kept putting him in that he couldn't cope with. When he was given adequate support, he didn't hurt anyone.

The school do need to take action, but it's by helping Fred, not excluding him.

If an LA is taking longer than the statutory time period to complete EHC needs assessments, then you tell them that if they don't meet the deadlines you will have to take judicial review proceedings through the courts. And if they still ignore you, get an official pre-action letter sent (SOS SEN will do them). It wakes local authorities up every time - they know that you will be able to get legal aid very quickly to take court proceedings because you take the action in your child's name, and if they haven't met statutory deadlines they have no defence.

If an LA refuses a needs assessment, the answer is to appeal. Contrary to what they say, it is not a valid reason to refuse assessment that they allege the school has to take more time. By law, all that the parent has to prove is that they child MAY have SEN, and MAY need the support of an EHC Plan. LAs concede around 90% of appeals against refusal to assess, and of those they don't concede, they lose around 85%.

I really wish schools were more aware of things like this - LAs constantly miss deadlines or make unlawful decisions to refuse to assess, and don't do what they're supposed to because they can get away with it. There are too many schools who tell parents it's all hopeless and they might as well not bother.

Assessment means trying to find out what triggers these behaviours
Is it a sensory thing
Is it that the child does not know how to communicate and is trying to interact without any skills
Is he non verbal
Are the children in his personal space and making him afraid and he's acting out of fear or panic
Is the child subject to violence at home so behaving the way he thinks is normal
Does he even know he is hurting the children
Is he over excited and acting out of a misunderstood way of sharing it
Has he experienced some loss or trauma that makes him act this way
Does he have the cognitive ability to realise that what he is doing isn't acceptable

What appears random and unprovoked needs to be watched and patterns observed it's part of the assessment.

Once the triggers are known then they can be dealt with or avoided but it's not an overnight thing and will take time.

Even a constant 1:1 will not help as it will mask the behaviours and it's the underlying cause that needs to be determined.

There is a fine balance to walk between trying to help this child and keeping your children safe. The school will sometimes get it right and sometimes not. However if it were your child you would want Fred to get help not punishment wouldn't you?

Serendipity even without unlawful delays LA's can still string the process out. If they refuse to make an assessment parent goes to Tribunal waiting time for tribunal is currently more than six months (my appeal went May Tribunal date is January) LA will then concede usually just before Tribunal and appeal is withdrawn.LA make an assessment and then refuse to issue an EHCP so parents appeal again and another six months wait. Just before Tribunal LA issues an inadequate and meaningless EHCP with too little and unspecified support so parents again have to appeal and another six month wait whilst child gets next to no support that they need.
LA haven't acted unlawfully they have met the guidelines but it's getting on for two years since request was made.
Our LA refused to issue an amended statement or a letter that sadi they refused to amend, they finally conceded on the morning we had leave for Judicial Review. They saved themselves probably £80k plus as it delayed ds's entry to an independent specialist school. There were no consequences to the LA, LGO don't even understand the process they got a note telling them that they should respond to my complaint in good time no mention of unlawful practise.It cost me a five figure sum.

Serendipity - I have a feeling from reading your posts you have never done this yourself. The world of theory is very different from the world of reality.

I have a different issue where my son has not been assessed appropriately (he was assessed without the assessor even clapping eyes on him). I have complained & copied in the MP. Initially my complaint was completely ignored. Then they tried to pretend it was about something else. Now I have pointed this out they are ignoring me again.

And so on & so forth. We'll get there eventually but if you think people abide by time limits or even the law you have never taken on these organisations.

And putting in an official complaint slows everything down to a snail's pace. The council know me well enough now to know that I will pick them up on everything. The multiagency team around ds1 tell them that & they pick them up as well. DS1 is a very clear case & has extremely high support needs. They still drag & delay & try it on every single time

And tbh many people cannot take these people on as I can & many people do not have the energy or support to do it.

And even an EHCP is not a magic solution to getting support. Attitude & ability/experience of staff is key.

Regardless of sn, yiu need to know what school are doing to keep yiur child safe. Yiur ds and other chikdren have a right to be educated in a safe environment. If he is continuing to hurt other chikdren, they are failing in their responsibilities. Actually if you complain to the head it may help Fred get more help.

Devillish it's only when you are actually in the process of a fight that you learn just how dirty the LA's will play. They play dirty because they can and because there is no penalty. At best they will get a slap on the wrist from the LGO and a penalty (less than £600) It pays for them to drag their feet and risk the £600 penalty when they are avoiding paying £1k plus per week to support a child.

Serendipity - I have a feeling from reading your posts you have never done this yourself. The world of theory is very different from the world of reality.
This with bells on!
SOSSEN, IPSEA, SN Jungle are all very aware of the barriers that LAs are putting in parents' way. LAs are spending a good chunk of their SN budgets on fighting parents in the courts!

And even when they're not playing dirty they're often understaffed and/or incompetent so everything takes five times as long as it 'should'.

Yes when I was fighting for ds the LA had given redundancy to almost all of the LIOs leaving too few staff with the necessary knowledge to meet their statutory duty Even now six years later they don't have enough staff to keep with the timeline of converting statements to EHCP. Dd's is unlikely to convert before y11 (she is y9 now)

It is also worth mentioning that many heads and governors aren't actually fully aware of their legal obligations, let alone the legal obligations of the LA. They don't have the necessary knowledge and skills to fight for the rights of individual children, and many find it easier to say "lack of funding", which is why so many parents have to take on the fight instead.

Every child has the right to go to school and not be hit/attacked.

I am sorry if Fred has issues but why should other children suffer acts of violence.
Hitting other people is not accepted in society so why are we teaching our children that it is ok by allowing another child to repeatedly hit them.

Serendipity - I have a feeling from reading your posts you have never done this yourself. The world of theory is very different from the world of reality.

Your "feeling" couldn't be more wrong.

insanity, the waiting time for tribunals was brought down in September to 12 weeks. Additionally, they deal with refusals to assess on paper which can make it even quicker.