To think me hitting her 10 years ago hasn't caused this?

[MrsKieraJ]

Hi. But unsure if I should ask this. I'll probably be slated!

Anyway I've grown a thick skin for this.

My daughter is 16, she is very mentally unwell. Lots of suicide threats and thoughts, 1 attempt. Self harms most days, has been in hospital for stitches etc. Still seeing CAMHS and I try and get her to therapy etc. She sees a few different people. When she was about 6 I did hit her, it was more than a slap too and I have never forgiven myself I fully admit I was in the wrong and am not pretending it was nothing as it was a massive deal, but everytime she has ever done anything wrong, she's always said "I'm not a perfect child, like you're not a perfect mum because you hit me" and I hear it every single day. Her counsellor has just encouraged her by telling her that it could have caused all her issues. Be honest, do you seriously think that's likely? Surely many mums have lost their temper at some point. I'm sure all of those didn't develop such severe mental health problems. I remember my mum used to slap me very frequently!!

I think that it depends on so many other variables, one of which is the child him/herself. Some children would be adversely affected by it, and for others it would be like water off a duck's back.

I think I might well have been smacked as a child (grew up in the 60s, so quite normal then) but I can't really remember, so it can't have been that traumatic and I'm emotionally stable and have a good relationship with my parents now.

i think mumsnet is never going to know the answer to your question op. you must know this. Ask CAMHS

My DPs slapped me - sometimes a bit more than a slap - when I was younger. I don't find the slapping the worst part for me, nor the route of my mental health issues. The worst thing is the fact that my DPs minimise or have completely changed history, sometimes calling me but always inferring that I am off my rocker for saying it happened. This has caused more damage than anything else.

Your DD is trying to engage with you, don't sweep her feelings under the carpet. And don't shrug her off by saying 'well I've already said sorry'.

Honestly I think a well-adjusted 16 year old with access to a good counsellor should be able to make sense of one really horrible moment with her mother, especially if she is aware that shortly after you were diagnosed bipolar.

I don't think one incident like that should have such a a devastating effect on a person that they attempt suicide.

So I would say there's either more to the story between you and her or there are outside influences that you don't know about.

Sorry my first sentence doesn't make sense as she's clearly not well-adjusted! I meant someone who's not had anything other than the one incident.

Hmm. I've just remembered an occasion when my mother did smack me. I'd dashed out into a road full of traffic and narrowly missed being hit by a car. I do remember being mildly put out by the injustice, but no more than that.

I was far more pissed off, growing up, about the two occasions when my mother forgot my birthday.

Which is why "context" is everything.

I think it unlikely that one incident as a 6/7 yo would in itself be such an issue unless it was somehow perpetuated , by ongoing reference, further destructive language, erratic behaviour or abuse. She clearly recalls it as a trigger for her negative thoughts, rightly or wrongly. Both have to deal with that and not be dismissive,

I suspect that you are minimising OP.
Only you know how much violence your child endured during that incident. But a six year old sustaining bruising suggests it was significant.

You will not help your daughter to heal if you continue to minimise her distress. You don't get to decide how much an impact that incident, the lead up to it, and the aftermath of it had on your child.

And of course, most of us would hold our kids tight and hug them, if they had a narrow escape. But, as I said, this was the 1960s.

I've got over it!

And by "context," I mean what LIZS said.

That sounds awful! I was hit by my mother a few times (maybe 3, but nothing as bad as you've described, never any bruises or things thrown at me) and I had severe mental health problems, practically identical to what you said your daughter has - in part caused by my mothers abusive behaviour. She refused to ever apologise, or even acknowledge the fact she did it, which didn't help...I think you are minimising and trying to rid yourself of guilt and responsibility. Sorry. I don't think that incident is to blame 100% for your daughters problems, but I think it must have contributed to a much larger picture. She might also have inherited bipolar - I have bipolar disorder and it started with me becoming very mentally unwell around age 15, incl. suicide attempts and daily self harming.

I don't know exactly what happened in the incident but I DO have lots of experience of teenage girls (3 of my own) and I can say, hand on heart, that they have a skill for manipulating their parents.
Unless it was extremely violent, I wouldn't think it could be responsible for her problems.
A lot of people on here have expressed disbelief that a parent could hit their child but let's be honest, just one generation ago parents regularly smacked their children in public and people didn't bat an eyelid.
I was smacked as a child - sometimes quite hard - by my father and I was also caned at school but it hasn't given me any mental issues.
I wouldn't try to suggest to your daughter that you don't think the blame lies with you (it sounds as if she has enough to deal with at the moment) but please don't keep beating yourself up about this. Just try to ignore her comments and work on helping her through the issues she has.
Good luck - take care of yourself.

Your DD isn't trying to make you feel bad.
And the isolated shove is not the cause for her problems.
Mental health isn't linear and straightforward like that.

But it's quite possible that she has picked up on your mental illness when she was younger. As your daughter she would have been extremely sensitive to any changes in your mood, or you withdrawing into a depressive mindset.

Please don't blame yourself for this. Equally, don't undermine her feelings or the work she is now doing with her counsellor. Focusing on the one shoving incident might be the only way your DD knows how to speak about the difficulties she faced in her childhood. Other things might be too evasive or too raw for her to talk to you about, or even to admit to herself.

Her anger is just a stage in her process of separating herself from you. It must be so hard for you to go through this, but it will pass because she is working on it! The fact that she is sharing her anger with you is a good sign.

I grew up with a mother who really struggled with her mental health (but in contrast to you she never acknowledged this), and I spent 5 years in therapy until I was able to move on from the mark that left on me. We have a very good relationship now. Feel free to PM.

Was it a throw or a shove? Awful, anyway.

Why are you going on about smacking NES?

OP has explained it was much more than that.

It could still affect her as she may feel you don't understand how awful it was for her and she likely feels you want to blame anything else but yourself for your daughter being ill. It is hard but you should treat it as if it could be the cause and try being really remorseful. If that doesn't help then maybe it could be she is in sing that as an excuse to guilt you when she is doing wrong.

As a kid I had a small number of spankings (on my bottom, over clothes) when I was particularly naughty - the one I remember most vividly was for running away from my mum, across a main road and almost being run over. I was taken home, smacked, and sent to my room. I don't think it was right, but it wasn't unusual then (80s) and I definitely don't see a connection between that and my mental health issues.

I agree with Magik's advice.

I remember my mum used to slap me very frequently!!

And you have bipolar disorder, so how does that disprove your daughter's accusation?

It sounds like she's suffering a mood disorder and fixating on an incident that (rightly) traumatised her. The best thing to do would be to hear her out and work through this together, rather than trying to move blame off yourself.

My dad lost his temper with me once and was holding a hard backed book which he battered me in the face with. I was about 14, I think I'd told him to fuck off.

However he was 99.9% of the time a loving and caring parent,mo and he apologised immediately and said he'd lost his temper.

Contrast with my mum who was mentally unstable, inconsistent and used to do things like drive us to my dad's (they were divorced) and leave us on his doorstep in a fit of temper without checking to see if he was actually there or not ( a few times he wasn't)

Guess which one did more harm? My mum did far more harm, so i'd say a one off violent incident in isolation is not going to have lasting effect on MH compared to poor parenting (but not violent) over a long period of time.

Neither is great though.

Guess which one did

A one of slap with a other wise normal healthy loving relationship. No i really dont think it would cause that.

But i suspect there was a lot of confusing feelings you being unwell.you not being there emotionally for her. Shouting . Feeling unloved . . But she isnt able to express them feelings so has pinpointed something that she can put into words that did happen.

How was your realtionship when she was young. How do you normally parent? I would have a real homest look at the past and see your own faults and then try and talk to your daughter about it. Maybe counsling for both of you.

My mum punched me around, ended up with an A&E trip with suspected broken arm as she knocked me to the floor while hitting me and then trod on my arm accidentally with heeled shoes on.

She denies she ever touched me today and that she was a wonderful mum. I cant work out if she genuinely doesnt remember or not. But she calls me abusive and pathetic for making up such lies.

After what was done to me, one incident at 6....well even I could have let that go but not repeated abuse that was then denied.

Mental health issues rarely (not never) have one single cause. PTSD probably most likely to, as mentioned by a previous poster

I have depression and anxiety and think it's partly genetic as both my parents have anxious tendencies and my sister has severe anxiety. Partly environmrntal and partly just random.

I agree with most others that you need to think seriously about what your relationship with your DD was like around the time of this incident and since. How was that relationship affected by your illness? Is her father around, what was/is his relationship with her like? If you were the only adult in her life I can imagine it being more traumatic than if she had another parent, grandparents etc to counteract it.

Talk to DD, she may well have very different memories of the time than you do. Due to both your illness and simply different perspective. I had a medical procedure about that age that I remember very differently to my mother, much scarier to a child!

To clarify, if I had been battered once when I was 6 and my mother never did it again and was deeply sorry, no I wouldnt hold a grudge.

It sounds to me as if this incident hasn't been dealt with by you, and that your daughter is now trying to deal with it from her end.

You need to see your daughter's counselor with her (if she and the counselor think it's appropriate) and deal with this incident. In and of itself and assuming it was a one-off I wouldn't think it would cause her serious problems, but the failure of the two of you to truly work through it and to give and get validation and forgiveness certainly could. It will be up to your daughter to set her own timetable for when she feels it's worked through.