To think me hitting her 10 years ago hasn't caused this?

[MrsKieraJ]

Hi. But unsure if I should ask this. I'll probably be slated!

Anyway I've grown a thick skin for this.

My daughter is 16, she is very mentally unwell. Lots of suicide threats and thoughts, 1 attempt. Self harms most days, has been in hospital for stitches etc. Still seeing CAMHS and I try and get her to therapy etc. She sees a few different people. When she was about 6 I did hit her, it was more than a slap too and I have never forgiven myself I fully admit I was in the wrong and am not pretending it was nothing as it was a massive deal, but everytime she has ever done anything wrong, she's always said "I'm not a perfect child, like you're not a perfect mum because you hit me" and I hear it every single day. Her counsellor has just encouraged her by telling her that it could have caused all her issues. Be honest, do you seriously think that's likely? Surely many mums have lost their temper at some point. I'm sure all of those didn't develop such severe mental health problems. I remember my mum used to slap me very frequently!!

So the girl is just "manipulative" and "making the mum feel bad" - really? Based on 4 very vague posts and evasive posts? I mean, maybe - but having grown up with a mum with MH issues, I doubt it.

Kiera, what was her day to day experience of you like? Was it honestly 100% happy and kind and supportive, apart from one ten minute confusing episode that you can't explain honestly online to strangers?

Getting diagnosed with bipolar is huge and complicated and a long process, and your behaviour is bound to have impacted her somehow. It might even be hereditary.

Your illness is not your "fault" but please don't ignore her feelings or reject her reaching out or trying to put words to it.

I have read many deepest secret/ total honesty threads on MN and similar forums over the years where many parents have admitted to hitting their children (once or a very small number of occasions) . I think it's more Common in non abusive families than anyone here will admit which makes it seem unlikely to have caused such trauma there is serious mental illness 10 years later

Can you explain what happened around the incident? How long was she left in the garden for?

catty

First of all, I highly doubt everybody did turn out ok. There's probably a reason why so many people your age are so firmly against hitting their children.

And although I do not agree with corporal punishment I do think there's a difference between punishment and hitting a child out of anger/when one is out of control. That isn't the same at all.

You threw stuff at her?

Honestly, as someone whose mum has been diagnosed with bipola, this one incident could cause last trauma. However life outside those event was probably very difficult for her too.

I would say it's very unlikely that this is the only incident where your illness scared or upset her

Klassy

I made some comment asking if ops dd is manipulative. That was before she more accurately described the event.

Op I very much doubt that it occurred as a one off. I don't believe an otherwise loving, calm engaged parent randomly inflicted a truamatic act of violence on her child.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not accusing you of other acts of physical abuse, but your relationship with her must have had significant difficulties at the stage you snapped right? And presumably when you say ill you mean mentally unwell at that point right? So you were struggling, your parenting was suffering & then she experienced a truamatic act of violence from her primary care giver?

Yes that could defibately cause the mh difficulties she's experiencing now. Especially if geneticly at risk anyways.

I'm not perfect BTW. I have hit one of my kids once and pushed her another time. My kids have autism and other problems. At age two she head butted me so bad she shattered my nose and I pushed her v hard to stop her doing it a second time. She hit the back of the couch and her head hit the wall. Not badly I guess, so bump but shock and crying. The other time I was injured and lying down & she was kicking a bad bruise (that she caused) and I was holding her leg to stop her as I could move due to my injury. Her sister then bit my ear and I lost hold of her leg and slapped it hard instead when I was bit.

These are my mistakes, I was wrong. I was doing the best I could and I forgive myself but only because I faced up to it. I was v honest and apologised and sought more help and read more pa renting books and really none of it 'helped' much in yeschool of parenting, but taking respknsibility for it helped my relationship with her.

One of the most painful things I remember was my mother lying and saying she never hit me. She only hit me a few times but allways denied it. I needed my memories validated and I did not need her gaslight ing me claiming it never happended or it didn't harm me.

If my kids bring up my violent mistakes I will be honest, including if they talk about it public/in front of teachers or sw etc. It's not about the mistakes we make its how we deal with them that counts. She needs you to deal with this now by acknowledging her experience of this incident. Even if it causes you pain to face up to. And she's still hoping that you will, and she's still giving you the chance to repair things, but she won't hold out that hope forever. So step up now. Hiding from painful guilt won't help your daughter now, from her pov all that will mean is you don't love her enough to be honest with yourself. That's what she will take from this, unless you own up and truly accept how this made her feel.

Stop fixating on this one event. It didn't happen in a vacuum, and like it or not, if you threw your daughter into the garden you were the sort of person who would throw your daughter into the garden . Living with an unpredictable, unstable and chaotic person while a child, even if it was for a short time is much more likely to cause lasting damage than one incident where the child is physically hurt.

It is also very possible that the child of someone with bipolar will be genetically predisposed to similar MH conditions.

It's a tough one. I don't know whether anyone on here can say they haven't really lost their temper with their kids. Whether it's shouting or dragging them to bed or putting them in the garden in their pants! And yes it's frightening for the kids. I'm sure at points in my childhood I was scared of my mum. But on the whole she was a loving mum so those moments were insignificant.

Other things did effect our relationship but it wasn't the odd slap. So it's hard to say what's really effected your daughter.

What's important though is that you're regretful and apologetic. This is massive and of course, if you're remorseful and your daughter can see this, hopefully you can both move on from this incident all those years ago...

No ones perfect. At 16 it's hard to see that but she will at some point. You need to try and move on from what's happened.

Also agree with the poster who advised to check for bi polar I'm your daughter...

op my mother has mental health problems and I'm NC with her now.

There was one incident where she was trying to slap my legs (I'd been winding her up ) and I kept putting my feet up and she ended up spraining her wrists (had them all bandages up)

If she had to recall a point where I could say she has been violent or abusive she would with out a doubt pin point that night and she would say it was a one off.

But too me it was much more than that one night. She was ill mentally and as a family we suffered most days because of it. Her illness made her horrible and nasty or the next day generous, loving and happy. Even that switch of personality had us walking on egg shells and that alone was was incredibly damaging, never mind the huge head fuck that came with her having mental health issues.

I went to see a phycotherapist over a sexual assault that happened in my childhood, a couple of years ago and when speaking to the therapist it was the problems with my mother that were my biggest hurdle. Her mental health and behaviour completly shaped my young life and it really messed me up for a long time.

your daughter maybe only able to vocalise or find the words for when you threw her out as an explanation but it actually might involve so much more than you realise or dare to acknowledge.

Something has damaged her. What about family councilling?

Mental health problems are genetic.

But by the fuck you are dismissing what happened - of course you've traumatized the poor girl.

Start having some empathy for your poor daughter.

badtime has nailed it for me.

She might be fixated on that one incident because she can't yet deconstruct the less obvious ways in which living with a parent with MH issues affected and traumatized her.

As somebody who suffers from MH problems, you seem oddly disconnected and unsympathetic to her, holding her at arms length - I don't believe this is really you, I think you love her but are in denial about something.

Are you avoiding feelings of shame and guilt? Are you trying to mentally avoid "going back there" for fear of opening something up in you?

My Mum threw me at a radiator when I was 7 for refusing to wear an outfit she'd got out for me. She smacked me a few other times, but I've never really forgiven her for it. When I mentioned it to her as an adult she dismissed it because she was depressed at the time. While I understand she has long running mental health issues, they never excuse you to be cruel or abusive to a small child.

So yes, your history of mental health and this incident of assault on a 6 year old may be part of her problems now. You don't sound very sorry, more as though she should be over it because you had mental health issues. Your mental health issues should never have been her issue to deal with.

For those people who say they don't think its possible for one incident to cause ongoing MH problems. I think it would depend on what happened and on how she percieved what happened as a 6 year old.

I have PTSD from a single incident that happened as an adult. I wasn't physically hurt, but was sufficiently scared to cause lasting effects. My PTSD presents as anxiety, pannick attacks and urges to self harm.

So yes as the councellor says, it could have caused her MH issues or contributed them, or then again they might not have. Whichever it is it sounds like your daughter is working through her issues with her councellor, which is good news. I wonder if some family therapy where the 2 of you could work through your issues with a therapist together may be useful at some stage too. You could ask CAMHS if a)they think she is ready for this and b)if they can refer you for this.

So, to be clear, there was one single incident, you were immediately diagnosed with bipolar and everything was sunshine and roses from then on?

You chased your 6 year old round the house, threw things at her, grabbed her arm, slapped her and physically threw her outside whilst screaming and shouting and it resulted in bruises and she still remembers it? Yes, I think that is just 'more than a slap'.

I think you both have an unhealthy relationship and all issues need addressing. Clearly this incident deeply affected your daughter and you need to help her through what she is feeling.

to you both. I hope this is sorted.

You're adding more. Now it's you were also throwing stuff at her....
This is one incident you can remember. There may be others. Which aren't all physical but could be verbal.
Either way you need to stop the excuses and accept your dd is hurting.

I don't have a comment about this particular incident: you haven't given us much context, and causation in human life is so complicated that it's probably just impossible for anyone to say what the outcome of any single incident might be.

But, bipolar disorder itself is highly heritable. If one parent has it, a child will have a 10% chance of having it too. Does your daughter have a psychiatrist? Are there other family members with serious mental illness?

I dont think you should have posted on MN as you will probably get answers that will upset you, better to speak to a professional.

But yes one off incidents when you are young can and do cause serious life long problems in some people. I know of people who have serious phobias because of one off incidents when they were young, the brain is so malleable and sponge like at that age anything abnormal can imprint for life.

I have a younger brother who had all the issues you talk about and after a decade of difficultly and lots of professional help he was able to tell me about the incidents that caused them. Their were 2/3 times when he was young that he was hit by our mother, I was there I saw them, it happened to me as well. The difference was that I didn't think they were a big deal whereas they affected him deeply.

Good news is that it is possible to come out the other side and have a 'normal' life.

No one can say whether it caused damage or not, it is in the past and cannot be undone. You can only be the best parent you are capable of at any moment, regrets are useless, you can only try to be better now at this moment. Make sure she knows you are sorry, perhaps ask her to look to the future and ask how she would like you to help her now.

Things can get better but not while you protect yourself emotionally by saying she must be lying/exaggerating/manipulating.

Yep.

is bipolar genetic in your case op?

My mum only recalls one time she attacked me because it was pretty violent, she actually rang social services on herself and told them she had tried to murder her daughter.

It wasn't the only time, not by a long run. It just affected her differently than the rest so it has stuck in her brain.

I love my mum, she had a tough life and I was far from easy but she has a very select memory about what went on when I was growing up.

You need to be careful that this isn't the case with your DD.

How does she feel about her childhood, have you ever just sat down and went through it all with her?