No rent no food

[Voiceoffstage]

My son is 20. He qualified as a chef 2 years ago, took a 'zero hours' job at a well known American fast food outlet within 10 mins walk of our house as a 'just for now' job while he looked for his first chef job.

Good for him - I was so proud of him not being too proud to flip burgers until he found the right job!

Won't go into my concerns about him becoming 'stuck'! The observant of you will see it in the subtext of my post

Anyway, he's on very short hours at the moment - only earned £22.53 in the last 2 weeks. He's applied for a 2nd chef job in a picturesque village pub with a good reputation for it's food. He had a trial this weekend, they made positive remarks, he was supposed to hear today, but, ironically, his employer has found lots of night work (extra pay) for him this week(!) so I haven't spoken to him today.

My beef is, well done to my DS, but, he really needs to apply for more than one job at a time - there is a fantastic opportunity for a trainee chef in a local luxury hotel that's part of a small chain with good opportunities for progression within the group.

OK, I'm rambling.....

He's supposed to give me £50 per week 'rent' and £50 per week for his £200pcm car insurance that I'm paying since his pay is so irregular. This month I've had the £200 car insurance from him, but he's not been able to pay me any 'rent'.

So, this week I've been eating lunch in the work canteen (yeah, I know I'm lucky - , but it looks like it will be replaced with a machine in April) and buying myself a bag of prepared salad, potato to bake etc on my way home for my tea. Funnily enough any fruit that I buy remains untouched!

Yesterday my son commented that there was no food in the house. I explained that I use his rent to buy the food, and since I'd had no rent for 4 weeks, I couldn't afford food.

Admittedly he said 'Fair enough - no rent, no food'.

Now I'm wondering if AIBU?

persiancatlady could you find out where the 17/18 year olds are getting their car insurance from for under £1500 please and let me know - I've been trawling for weeks for my 18 yr old and the cheapest I've found so far £2475

My main gripe would be why is he running a car and an expensive phone if he can't pay the rent? Rent & food, utility bills come first and anything else out of the money left over. I'd stop paying his phone and use the money for food.

Insurance in Cloud Cuckoo Land is very cheap nokids. I think a lot of the 'my 20 YO insures a BMW for £900 a year' claims would only stack up if that 20 YO had 3 years NCB and lived somewhere like the Outer Hebrides.

Sadly £2.5k or more is much more like it. Moneysavingexpert has tips on how to reduce costs as much as possible, which include using Black Box insurers, limited mileage, cheapest group car and putting older drivers with good driving records on the insurance as second/third drivers.

Insurance in Cloud Cuckoo Land is very cheap nokids. I think a lot of the 'my 20 YO insures a BMW for £900 a year' claims would only stack up if that 20 YO had 3 years NCB and lived somewhere like the Outer Hebrides

Would you like to see the certificate Barbara? It's his first car, he had one year's NCD from driving my car, we live in the East Midlands, he's a soldier and drives about 10k miles a year.

We paid for DS2's insurance on his Renault Clio. He passed his test at 17, if cost us £1100 to start with, but he had a black box and it came down to just over £900 because he drove well. He sold that to DH's friend's DD, she's just passed her test at 18 and is paying £1080 for insurance.

Our children have lots of friends who learnt to drive at 17/18. Not one of them paid anything near £2000 for insurance.

I do apologise Fairy. it seems that the days of 17 YOs paying so much for car insurance are over.

Not surprised, it's a ridiculous amount, they could probably have their own personal taxi for less but not so long ago it was widely reported that the average 17/18 YO male in a not very exciting car couldn't get insurance for less than about £5k.

www.uswitch.com/car-insurance/car-insurance-for-young-drivers/

could you find out where the 17/18 year olds are getting their car insurance from for under £1500 please and let me know
I will ask when I see them but I am warning you that I am talking about old banger Fiestas, Corsas and a Ka (I think) that are only insured either TPFT and in one case I think he said he only got TPO because the cars are only worth a few hundred quid.

I've just invented myself an 18 YO DS to drive my car (a citigo - group 2) which I've just renewed for £230 with 2 years NCB) and uswitch gives quotes of £2300 to £13k or £1890 to £12k if I am added as a second driver.

Good thing I don't have any teens wanting to drive as it would take some work to get insurance significantly below £2k.

Those quotes were comprehensive on a car worth £5k, so yes TPO would be less, but the value of the owned car isn't the only factor by a long way because £5k is nothing compared to the cost of lifetime care and compensation awards when a young driver kills or seriously injures 4 of his mates in a serious accident.

That is what the insurance companies are worried about paying out for with young male drivers as it could run into millions.

So he is a trained chef and turns his nose up at fresh ingredients, doesn't cook and prefers frozen chips and ready made pizza?

Um.

I think you are being more than reasonable. If he can afford petrol and cigarettes then he can afford to eat.

In your shoes I'd kill the mobile phone contract and the car insurance too except it would be counterproductive. I'd certainly be serving notice that I intended to.

I have to admit I'm wholly unsympathetic to the poor lad's plight. He's 20 ffs - he's hardly a bloody child. He needs to buck up his ideas and either get some more hours at his current job or keep applying until he gets something better.

That is what the insurance companies are worried about paying out for with young male drivers as it could run into millions
Absolutely and the way that ICs look at it is that there a far stronger likelihood of this happening with higher powered cars.

I think that young people really like these higher power cars but a few years of driving around in a 1.0L or 1.1L, worth next to nothing car that the only thing you are insuring for is the risk of third party damage and injury is a really good way of getting insurance premiums to reasonable cost.

I am wondering why the OP didn't come back to us and let us know what sort of car her DS was paying £2,400 a year for but I suspect that it may be because the car in question is not particularly appropriate for a young person.

My quote of £2400+ was for a 10yr old Renault clio but it was fully comp

I agree with the principle of it but it all seems a little passive aggressive. Why not just sit him down and tell him he needs to be more proactive about seeking additional work or a job with more hours. He seems to be stuck in a bit of a rut. It would be perfectly reasonable to tell him that you need to see him doing more to actively get a better job or he will need to get rid of the car but to just stop buying him food without any warning seems a little unfair.

My quote of £2400+ was for a 10yr old Renault clio but it was fully comp
It may be so expensive because you have chosen FC or because of where you live or it may be what type of Clio it is.

At the bottom end of the scale a Clio can be as low as IG5 but at the other end of the scale it can be IG39, so there is a lot of scope for price variations there.

OK in answer to your many comments & questions.

DH did take the redundancy and hasn't worked for the last 8 months. Everything that I feared has happened. He's only applied for 2 jobs, despite my encouragement and cadgoling. I've suggested that he do some voluntary work to get him 'back in the swing'of working, I've suggested training - an IT qualification for eg. He left it too late to apply for the Xmas temp Royal Mail sorting office jobs despite me 'reminding' him. He actually asked me to apply for him

He says that. after 32 years in the same job, he is insitutionalised, burned out &, at 50, he's on the run-down to retirement & should take things easy.

He has approached his former Manager about possible re-instatement- this is a definite no, they're reducing the number of people in that grade.

I've given him until the end of March 2017 to sort himself out or I leave. I've started clearing cupboards out as I have no confidence that he will do anything until I leave & then it will definitely be too late.

Harsh you may call me, but I could fill a whole post with details about when he's let me down. .

I work full-time as a manager in an organisation that helps unemployed people find jobs. Without in anyway contravening my employer's Social Media policy, I think that people may understand why DS doesn't want to deal with the Jobcentre.

I'm not 'rolling in it' I work hard, I earn a fairly good salary - just over £26k pa. I have to pay a mortgage, keep a 4 bed house going pay for my car, petrol etc etc. I do get Disability Living Allowance and that pays for essentials such a my prescriptions, repairs to my wheelchairs (you wouldn't believe how often they get a puncture), repairs to crutches, new crutches (they need new 'bottom ends about every 4-6 months & only last about 2-3 years before the handle wears through & starts to give you blisters) etc, etc .

My consultant has told me that I have to reduce my hours as my health is suffering.

My parents, however, after a life-time of hard work and saving - not to mention benefiting greatly from house-price inflation over the 54 years that they've been married. They do have a large disposable income & DS, being the only grand child, has been spoiled. I have frequently begged my parents not to be so generous as it gives DS the impression that money falls out of the sky. But what can I do?

We live in rural Devon. If DS didn't have his own car, I'd be spending a fortune driving him here there & everywhere because, although we live in a not unsubstantial-sized town, public transport is expensive and sparce, especially at weekends and evening. . However, we are 20 miles from the coast, and 14 miles from a city with hotels & food outlets everywhere, so there are plenty of jobs in hospitality in the local area.

Why do I pay for his car insurance?

1. To give him the ability to meet his friends, go for interviews etc without 'Mummy' having to drive him everywhere

1. Because he didn't have any credit record & couldn't get the credit to pay the insurance monthly.

The phone's contract ends on 8/1/17 & me and DH have cheaper contracts as it's a package deal. If DS needs/wants a phone after then, it's up to him to sort it out. He will have built up a credit rating having had his own bank account & paid his car tax by DD for 6 months.

I could manage without DS £50 per week rent. However, I feel that he's taking the micky. When he left college we agreed what I would pay for and what he would pay for. However, I've not had full rent and car insurance money since July. When I have had it he 'borrows' it back to take his GF out to dinner for her birthday for example. Then he doesn't earn enough to pay me back and pay me rent because if he pays me rent, he's only left with say..£42 to last him 2 weeks which he can't manage on. I've gone with this, not asking for 'borrowed' money back, letting him off rent if paying it leaves him with little money for himself. I've given him money for clothes and 'lent' £45 for new work shoes (leather 'kitchen' shoes, you can get cheaper, but he swore that he would pay me back - I said just pay me the difference between the mid-range £20 ones. He agreed, but then couldn't afford it, so I let it go.

For months I've been printing off details of good chef jobs. Then he thought he might like to be a plumber. I found out how he could get an apprenticeship £135 per week - (obviously I'd adjust his rent accordingly) I spent a whole evening creating a CV that would 'sell' his health & safety experience, customer care, attention to detail etc. He missed the closing date.

I'm 53 years old, I have severe arthritis, use a wheelchair for outside journeys and crutches inside. I've lost 3 stone in the last year - I'm now a size 6 (I'm 5.1'). I'm on a large dose (40mg) of the anti-depressant Citalopram. I take maximum doses of some pretty major painkillers. Not to mention the regular steroid injections. My clothes are all size 12 so I've been buying new clothes on Ebay and in charity shops. Nothing wrong with that at all. But DH & DS Don't buy 2nd hand.

I stopped preparing an evening meal 8 months ago. DH is at home all day and we are a household of adults who are perfectly capable and safe to prepare a meal unsupervised. I go out to work - why should I cook when I come home?

However, I found that I would come home from work to find that DH had decided to spend his redundancy money in the local cafes, DS had made himself a fry-up earlier, so they didn't need anything to eat - good for them . Neither of them even thought that I might be hungry. When I pointed this out to DH (DS invariably either out or in his room) he would sigh heavily, say 'oh do you want something then?' sighing and struggling up from chair he would say: 'OK what do you want then?'

So I started using the work canteen - no it's not subsidised. We're very lucky to have it, but it's only there because we used to share our building with more important people than us. They moved out, but presumably my employer has a contract with the catering company, so the canteen remains, for now.

I also posted about issues with DS & his GF.

That's all worked out.

Poor girl had been the victim of a sexual assault when he was 14. Understandably she went 'off the rails' for a while & 'fell in' with a very wicked girl. I know this girl's BF. On one occasion threw him out of my house & told him that he wasn't welcome in my home again. I came home from work to discover him in my garden smoking cannabis - he had the cheek to try to 'educate' me & offered me a 'toke' as it may help my pain!!!

Please don't focus on this & ask questions about DS & any interest he may have in 'exotic' tobacco- we talked & I have no concerns there.

Anyway, cut a long story short. Both DH & me have met GF's parents as a 4, and DH & father for a beer on a couple of occasions & me & GF mother for coffee, afternoon tea, lunch etc. We have all agreed that GF can stay Fri-Sun, but she's at home the rest of the week. She's not working yet, but we're working on that & she's got a few interviews coming up - now that I've sorted her CV(!)

Why should I work so hard and so many hours to support a couple of lazy work-shy men? DH isn't DS biological father, but he's been in his life since he was 5 &, I think, DS sees DH & thinks 'why should I bust a gut if he doesn't?' Actually he's said as much

I think that's everything - I didn't want to be accused of drip feeding again.

If you feel this is too long & that you got bored, please feel free to say so. I won't be offended.

I think that people may understand why DS doesn't want to deal with the Jobcentre
No not at all.

I've started clearing cupboards out as I have no confidence that he will do anything until I leave & then it will definitely be too late
I am not surprised that your DH can't be bothered to do what you ask him to as you seem to have so little faith in him that I suspect whatever he did would be wrong in your eyes.

Poor guy, he must be living a miserable existence.

OP it sounds like you're married to a loser and your son has taken after him. You've got the right attitude refusing to enable them any longer.

Tbh I suspect you'd be a lot happier if they both moved out. I can't imagine living with a selfish 50-year-old layabout and a 20-year-old manchild.

You're on the right track, don't let other posters degrade you into thinking you're in the wrong here. The only thing you're doing wrong is still paying your son's car insurance and phone bills.

Just step back and stop doing anything for these grown adults, let them sort themselves out. People lower their behaviour to meet your expectations, so as long as you expect them to be useless they probably will be. Make them stand on their own feet and they might actually step up and do so.

If you died tomorrow I'm sure they'd do just fine, so while you're still alive don't waste your precious time and energy looking after them especially as they don't seem to care much about you. :(

notmyproblem its not fair for you to gaslight posters on this thread when many of us didnt have the full picture earlier.

Hi op, i read through your post and i thought it was a little harsh as your son was working and you said you had a great income. However your income is good not great and you are singlehandedly carrying your entire household. You are pushing on through pain and stress and you have my admiration.

I think you have just got to the end of your tether and you fear that ds will continue to coast along without your prompts. You need to shop and have food in the house but talk with him about his choices ie smoking and lack of hours and that he needs to get on the job search. Let him know how much thus is affecting you.

You have been supportive and you should continue to be after all he is your son and 20 is not that old.

You sound very unhappy with your husband but he does sound depressed after redundancy and maybe feels you will make him redundant also so its a self fulfilling prophecy as he is being useless around the house and not helping support you or aiding with the stresses and bills or even cooking a meal for his wife.
However you need to support him and he may become the support you need, he may not but you wont know until you support him. If he really is just going to be a drain for you then it may be worth cutting him loose, only you know what other issues there may be in your relationship.

I hope things get better for you op, i dont think you mean to be harsh but you are in a tough situation and the two people closest to you are letting you down.

Good luck.

Not at all Cat Lady.

When he was working he reduced his hours twice without consulting me.

A couple of years ago when I had surgery on my spine, he disappeared to his mother's, left me & DS to manage on our own. At the time DS was at college 7 days a week & some evenings. For the first 6 weeks I was pretty-much bed/chair-bound & needed help to transfer to a wheelchair to get to the loo etc. I couldn't even make myself a cup of tea. After 3 days of this DH decided that he couldn't cope with helping me & working 22 hours per week, so moved out to his mothers for the duration. I had to rely on neighbours & DH's cousin to help me when DS was at college.

Another time when I had an lump on my breast & needed a biopsy he left me to face it alone as he 'needed' his ear syringed & took himself off to ENT to see if they could do it while I was having my biopsy. He left a message with the nurse to ask me to wait for him to finish.

This week he's in the SE helping his sister move. He took the £109 train fare out of the household account - every penny of that account is reckoned for, I had to put the £109 into that account from my savings account. Then I have to pay £50 for our dog to go into doggie daycare because he's away - also not budgeted for, so has to come out if 'my personal' money eg: the money that I spend on haircuts, someone to cut my toe nails etc. He has his hair cut every 4 weeks, why should I pay for that when I'm stretching my hair cuts to 8 weeks to make the budget stretch? This trip has cost me £159 - out of the money that I work for. His sister earns 4x what I earn and I felt that his sister should pay this, since she knows that he's not working at the moment. He said that he couldn't possibly ask her for the money - but it's OK to ask me!?

As I said, I could fill a whole post with his selfishness.

I am not asking if you think IABU - I know that I'm not.

I would make him sell his car because he can't afford it and stop paying his phone bill. But I would not starve him. Bread, ham and cheese in the fridge at least.

Voiceoff it is your DH who is the problem.

Thanks Flirty

He so is depressed and has been for some time. However, his family work against me & support his 'reasons' which, until 8 months ago were his job was making him depressed. I have offered - strongly eg: 'right so you and me will go to see your GP together on x date at x time.' he then cancels the appointment for a spurious reason (his mum needed some shopping done - you could have done that after the doctor appointment...) He then says that he doesn't want to ''resort' to anti-depressants (but it's OK for me to do that). Just excuses - he's 50, he's an adult, one can only support someone for so long before it gets to the point when you realise that you are flogging a dead horse. I think that leaving him should make him rely on his own resources & make him focus on looking after himself rather than making me a wife-mother.