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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think enough is enough, time to have a re-vote on brexit

535 replies

jdoe8 · 23/10/2016 14:44

I'm still having problems sleeping with brexit, sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night thinking it was just a nightmare. But its real and with each day it gets worse.

Now the banks are saying they will leave the UK, as we are 80% services and the banks are a very significant part of this it will be catastrophic for the UK economy.

Most of the people i know that voted to brexit now regret their decision so why not have another vote on it?

OP posts:
PickledCauliflower · 25/10/2016 15:26

Thatcher was pro EU, but she was also quick and ready to turn her back on cities and regions that were not "Thatcherite" in their locally elected governments.
Relereased data records the letters between her and William Whitelaw that Liverpool should be allowed to go in to natural decline.
Thatcher did not have the interests of UK residents at heart. I believe that her main aim was captilism for captilisms sake - she would do a deal with anyone on that basis.

PickledCauliflower · 25/10/2016 15:28

She also detonated as many workers rights as she possibly could (and she managed quite well at it). All with the support of the EU.

WrongTrouser · 25/10/2016 15:38

Valentine

that side should present arguments why is it bad to stay in EU.

Have you not heard any arguments presented for leaving the EU? There have been plenty put, some more sensible than others, the same as some of the reasons put forward for remaining were more sensible than others. You presumably don't agree with the reasons put for leaving so don't accept them as valid. That's fine, I feel the same about reasons for staying in. I'm just not buying this "no-one has given us any reasons to leave" line - it is just nonsense.

Second question, see above, plus it's not just about money.

Re younger people having more say - call me old fashioned but I believe in universal adult suffrage.

Re voting for MEPs and whether my knowledge of the voting figures is sufficient for your requirements of whether I was entitled to choose how to vote in the referendum, sorry you have lost me there.

I have come across people on Mumsnet who voted Remain for their children and grandchildren. What do you think on this?

I'm sure they did what they thought best. I voted leave for my children (and any future grandchildren).

WrongTrouser · 25/10/2016 15:40

I have come across people on Mumsnet who voted Remain for their children and grandchildren. What do you think on this?

Are you really suggesting that people who voted leave care less about their children and grandchildren than people who voted remain? Do you really believe this? If you do, please have a word with yourself.

LurkingHusband · 25/10/2016 15:40

It's worth acknowledging that the UKs entry into the EU came about as a result of Ted Heath needing to poleaxe Labour (who were anti-EU) support in the early 1970s as a result of his own disastrous economic policy.

And that Thatcher became Tory leader on an "anyone but Heath" ticket.

So given our entry was due to political expedience, rather than any overarching desire to better the UK, it's entirely appropriate the manner of our leaving should be as ignominious.

QuinionsRainbow · 25/10/2016 15:45

Cameron couldn't have been clearer that the outcome would be binding.

Cameron said he would stay and see it through - look how binding that was!

smallfox2002 · 25/10/2016 15:50

Your missing where McMillan begged to de gaul to be let in.

smallfox2002 · 25/10/2016 15:51

The economic benefits of being and bettering the country were obvious

smallfox2002 · 25/10/2016 15:52

Oh and wrong, most of the reasons for leaving are spurious and none stand cost benefit analysis.

LurkingHusband · 25/10/2016 15:57

Your missing where McMillan begged to de gaul to be let in.

McMillan also had to beg the US for entry to the nuclear club - Blue Streak and all that. He also made some shady promises to the US behind parliaments back.

We need to be careful, or we might start losing respect for our politicians.

Ironically, de Gaulles opposition (which he was never secretive about) was that the UKs economic model simply would not adapt to the one being forged by France/Germany/Italy.

It's hard to disagree with 50+ years hindsight.

That said, the UK can only blame itself - in the shape of rabble-rousing jingoistic MPs - for never fully engaging with the EU and making things better from the inside.

Valentine2 · 25/10/2016 15:58

wrongtrouser
When I say no reasons given, I mean that we have demanded to see data behind it. Since you seem to have solid arguments and have researched it, please post them here? But please use facts and figure to back it.
Your point its not just about money: what were the other things then?
I also believe in universal adult suffrage but I would always respect my children's opinion if my decision is affecting their decision. it's their right on me whether I like it or not.
For the MEP elections, I meant to ask why has the UK population not bothered about the MEP elections if they were so concerned about EU dictating laws to us? I know absolutely no one who ever voted in Those elections ever. I didn't say you need to know those figures to qualify to vote. Please don't twist my words.

Last point about voting for your grandchildren: sure you did. You have just chosen a future for them they didn't want basically. Why do you think it should make sense to me? I am teaching my children well I hope and once they are the age for vote, I will respect and go along with their choice essentially, if the decision is affecting their future mainly. That's democracy and respect.

LurkingHusband · 25/10/2016 15:59

Cameron couldn't have been clearer that the outcome would be binding.

So what ? Her's fucked off anyway, and one of the fundamental principles of parliamentary sovereignty is that parliament cannot bind it's successors.

Brexiters might want to read that bit again - I suspect they don't get what it means (amongst other things).

surferjet · 25/10/2016 16:01

Your missing where McMillan begged to de gaul to be let in

Yep, & he basically took the piss out of McMillan & made it very difficult for us to join, didn't he actually veto our bid ?

Nice feeling telling them to poke it now.

LurkingHusband · 25/10/2016 16:02

For the MEP elections, I meant to ask why has the UK population not bothered about the MEP elections if they were so concerned about EU dictating laws to us? I know absolutely no one who ever voted in Those elections ever

I have - since 1984.

Valentine2 · 25/10/2016 16:02

Wrongtrouser
Are you really suggesting that people who voted leave care less about their children

I can keep saying I love you my children and vote the other way around. What else is it? Been to the Relationships board of Mumsnet ever? It's one of the classic sign of a not so good/caring relationship although I am sure it was essentially unconscious on the part of all Leavers. All parents love their children but it should be visible in every action we take on their behalf too.

smallfox2002 · 25/10/2016 16:05

Ah so poking a dead guy for something over 50 years ago is valid.

Nah yout still insipid surfer.

tiggytape · 25/10/2016 16:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Valentine2 · 25/10/2016 16:09

pickled
Sorry I should have replied to you first. But I was talking to wrongtrouser before you so thought appropriate to answer their post first.
I am no expert and was a baby when She was a prime minister. What I do understand is that her actions doomed a big part of the working class. I also think those areas were getting lots of help from EU now. Again, I don't think the system was perfect but we have lost so much money from our economy since June. Have you got some data to show it will all be worth it in the end? And if you haven't got any data, what did you see that made you vote this way? Wrecking economy for a generation and their children who faced the major heat of recession and still facing it, doesn't look like a fair thing to do. Please provide data if you have done the pro and cons of EU on economy and for the future generations too.

surferjet · 25/10/2016 16:13

Smallfox. Lay off the personal attacks fgs, you're just making yourself look childish.

Valentine2 · 25/10/2016 16:17

tiggy
I have this really perplexing question in my mind: how I'm the world have we allowed this to happen in our country? I want to see beyond this pro or con argument stage now. How in the world did Farage and Boris get away with lying on screen? It's the country of World leading universities but we have allowed this to go on? It's mind boggling because I fear what the future holds and may be I will be b enter prepared if I understand how we came here.

Valentine2 · 25/10/2016 16:17

surfer
I asked you a hell of a lot of questions and feeling indignant that you didn't even bother to reply to me at all.

WrongTrouser · 25/10/2016 16:22

I'm not going to attempt to reply to Valentine 's latest reply to me but I would be interested to know whether any of the remainers on this thread think it's acceptable to imply that all leave voters who are parents are basically abusive parents who don't have their children's interests at heart as opposed to people who have a different opinion on whether their children lives will be better in or out of the EU. I have read some nasty comments (from both sides) on these threads but I think that is the most horrible yet.

Also fascinating that Valentine knows how my as yet unborn and purely hypothetical grandchildren would have chosen to vote. Amazing.

Valentine2 · 25/10/2016 16:25

wrongtrouser
That's downright stupid if you and a very good example of how goady fuckery is done on here.
Reply on behalf of the children, not the grandchildren. You talk a lot like Gove. Back it up with data. If you can't, don't post.

InformalRoman · 25/10/2016 16:30

I'm a remain voter, and part of my reasons for voting to remain within the EU is because I want my children to be able to make the most of any / all employment opportunities that may come their way, in the UK, in the EU or worldwide. Freedom of movement is pretty important from that point of view.

DH and I have been lucky enough to have lived and worked overseas, why would I vote for something that will deliberately limit my children's opportunities to do the same?