To think enough is enough, time to have a re-vote on brexit

[jdoe8]

I'm still having problems sleeping with brexit, sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night thinking it was just a nightmare. But its real and with each day it gets worse.

Now the banks are saying they will leave the UK, as we are 80% services and the banks are a very significant part of this it will be catastrophic for the UK economy.

Most of the people i know that voted to brexit now regret their decision so why not have another vote on it?

[frumpet]

Red FOM is there for everyone , which is why some people in the leave camp voted against it , my 22 year old with very few qualifications to his name can make as much use of of it as say a Polish 22 year old who is willing to work as a domestic in the NHS in the UK . He could go and work in France or Spain or Germany doing minimum wage jobs , he chooses not to .

[Valentine2]

reddogs
It's a massive misunderstanding. I am saying exactly what you are saying.

[RedDogsBeg]

Okay, fair enough - crossed wires.

[larrygrylls]

To answer a few questions:

Northern aeurope has quite a lot of cultural similarities. Uk and Greece or U.K. And Poland, less so.

I do think a Eurozone collapse is fairly inevitable. At least the question will be asked to which the answer has to be federation or split.

The timing, however, is not easy to predict. If the uk diversifies away from Europe over the next 5-10 years, it will certainly be somewhat insulated from the evonomic shock.

[Ta1kinpeece]

NO NO NO NO NO
No more referenda
just get Parliament to vote it down - as per the legislation

[smallfox2002]

So Larry, your basing the justification for leaving on possibilities ten years down the line that we would still be negatively effected by, after all trade with a countries closest neighbours is of the upmost importance, for a slight possible increase with minor trade partners.

Yeah..

[autumnintheair]

I'm still having problems sleeping with brexit, sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night thinking it was just a nightmare. But its real and with each day it gets worse

Yes but this is exactly how I felt in the utter madness of the Mad EU years.

I feel a weight has been lifted off my shoulders and I have remainer and Brexit friends and all Brexit people I know say the same.
We feel immense relief, a weight has been lifted and we are free, at long last - or we will be soon ish.

My children will be free! It means much to me that my childrens vote will mean something in future and please no one trot out the old usual crap. Our system is not perfect, no system is - look at the US !!
But its better than so many.

[autumnintheair]

How did EU bully us on youth employment?

i guess you have missed all the media coverage on under cutting, calling british workers lazy, pitting our youth against the youth of the whole eu? I dont think I ever heard a good word about our young workers. Even Polish leaders told us our young were lazy and didnt want to work,

On Newsnight One guy who owned a factory said - its rubbish, I employ both and you get good and bad workers from both sides, the only difference being often workers from the EU are able to keep their living costs down really low - live in large numbers in small houses and send money home. They have a specific goal.

[Peregrina]

Clearly our young people learn their workshy habits from their elders. Wasn't it Liam Fox, or was it David Davis, (interchangeable, both dimwitted), who said that our business people were lazy and preferred to play golf?

Whoever the one guy was on newsnight - 40 years ago exactly the same comments were said about large numbers in small houses sending money home, but then the villains of the piece were "coloureds". 90 years ago, I wouldn't mind betting that the same was being said about the Jews.

[winkywinkola]

Autumn, wow. You have felt so very oppressed and suffocated all these years. Can you tell us more about what exactly?

[SallyMcgally]

But aren't Liam Fox and David David the ones promising us a great and glorious future once we unshackle ourselves from EU? How's that going to happen if our business people are so lazy according to them?

[Valentine2]

sally
They will just go on to shrug their shoulders and say "we really did give it our best! But the businesses were so damn lazy that Brexit didn't work. How in the world is that our fault?"

[Bananagio]

My children will be free! It means much to me that my childrens vote will mean something in future and please no one trot out the old usual crap. Our system is not perfect, no system is - look at the US !!

. Genuinely don't understand what you are talking about Autumn
What significant part of government policy has meant you didn't feel "free" or that your vote mattered as a direct result of Brussels?

[frumpet]

Autumn media coverage has nothing to do with the EU though , it is to do with , well the media . A section of which have been demonising the EU for years with half truths .

I do not understand your 'free' remarks at all , that is not to say I am saying the way you are feeling is 'wrong' , your feelings are your feelings . I just do not understand how being a member of the EU has actually made you in any way less 'free' ?

If you are entitled to vote and have registered to vote , then you get a vote . You do not get to vote on every tiny little thing that goes through parliment , either the UK or EU one , you vote for a MP or MEP and put your trust in them to do whatever they believe is best for the UK , you will probably disagree with some of things they do , infact if your MP/MEP isn't one you voted for you may disagree with everything they do , but that is how it works and will continue to work if we leave the EU . So I struggle to understand your sense of being 'free' . Feel free to disagree

[frumpet]

Parliament !

[larrygrylls]

Frumpet,

The more diluted democracy is, the less effective. People still feel that they have a connection with their MP, not their MEP. There are many stories in newspapers and on mn where local MPs have become involved and sorted out individual's issues. Can anyone point me to someone writing to their MEP and getting a positive result?

In the European Parliament our parties are allied in big broad voting blocks, further diluting the electorate's will.

It is ironic to devolve power to the regions simultaneous with concentrating it in Brussels.

[frumpet]

Is it that people do not feel a connection with their MEP because they haven't actually voted for one , I always vote , it was drummed into me at an early age that if you have a vote you should always use it , so I have dutifully turned up and voted in every MEP election this area has had , sometimes the one I voted for got in ! the turnout for these elections though is generally pretty poor when you compare them to other elections , which is suprising when you consider how the EU has allegedly become this all powerful behemoth of anti-democratic shenanagins , people would have been out in force surely, if they felt so strongly about it ?

I know where my MEP lives and what he is called , I know what his wife looks like and what car she drives and where the post box is hidden on his house ! No I am not a stalker

[larrygrylls]

Frumpet,

Come on! The vast majority of the electorate is apathetic, even about matters which affect them daily. The exact nature of the democratic structure is far too obscure for them to demonstrate about.

If you know what block your MEP sits with in Brussels and how that block votes, I would be intensely surprised! I am politically interested and clued up but I don't have a clue. (Clearly you are going to do a quick google and say that you made it your business to know this even before voting).

The EU does not really attempt to justify itself to its electorate. I don't remember the campaign for the European parliament. I certainly don't remember anyone knocking on my door or any leaflets coming through explaining policies etc.

[frumpet]

Larry , the only thing I shall be googling today is why my washing machine is making a funny noise on the spin cycle and what part I need to order to fix it !

I do not know what block the MEP sits with in Brussels or indeed how that block votes , all I can honestly say is nothing that has come out of Brussels so far has had a detrimental effect on my life as far as I can tell , although if any of the votes were about hiding your blimmin letter box , I shall of course have to detract that statement .

[fakenamefornow]

Can anyone point me to someone writing to their MEP and getting a positive result?

I've written to one of my MEPs and got a positive result. I have also written to my MP but never my local councillor, in fact I don't know who my local councillor is

[larrygrylls]

Fake,

May I ask what about and why you chose your MEP over your MP?

[lightupowl]

OP I am also having sleepless nights over Brexit. It will affect our family in a very direct and negative way.

I feel cheated by the referendum campaign/outcome in a way that I never have after a disappointing general election result. With a GE, I have always been able to accept the result, whatever it was and whatever the consequences for me personally.

This time it feels different. I cannot accept this outcome for our country on the basis of such campaign. Even before the vote itself, the process felt corrupt and clumsily handled. Arguments from both sides misrepresented, over emotional and misunderstood. Our futures gambled for various political careers. There was no plan, just arrogance that remain would win.

Would a second referendum be conducted in a better way? Probably not. I no longer think that this is the answer, especially as a remain vote would make leavers feel equally cheated. Parliament absolutely has a duty to sort this mess out, though. We pay them to deal with complicated problems and accept flak to do the right thing. In my view this would mean insisting that A50 is put to the vote before it is invoked. It would be devastating if parliament voted to invoke A50 but this I could accept.

[smallfox2002]

Larry, the same problems of block voting and representing the people can be said of MPs at Westminster. A Conservative MP voting with party policy at all times doesn't represent any Labour voters or Lib dems in his constituency.

MEPs serve a useful role in debating EU wide issues, and highlighting their own constituents interests, and can suggest ammendments to legislation. It was hilarious that Farage felt the need to champion the cause of the fishing industry having been on the committee for the CAF and not turned up for years.

Outside of the EU the UK will still be effected by EU and EU parliament decisions, we won't have a voice in this process and therefore trying to justify a leave vote for the reasons you have listed frankly smacks of desperation.

[GraceGrape]

But General Elections are re-run every five years. Even if there were other referenda, for example on capital punishment, the decision could be reversed by future legislation. With this referendum, the action taken now is pretty irreversible. Once we leave, we leave. Even if it goes tits up and we apply to rejoin in twenty years, we will never have the favourable arrangement that currently exists.