AIBU to expect my 13yo not to steal from me?

[Icantthinkofanothername]

(Have name changed obv)
He takes EVERYTHING. As in, there's some cash on the side in the kitchen - change from fish and chips yesterday - and he took a pound coin (brought it to me after his sister told him I had noticed it was gone). DH & I have a drawer in the kitchen with 'our' snacks in - nuts, dried fruit, chocolates - and a couple of weeks ago he took the chocolate bar that was in there - 150g dairy milk that was for me for a week, and he scoffed the whole thing. He took an unopened pack of (10) caramel rocky bars last weekend, ate the lot - wrappers all under his pillow. I got two tubs of roses (am I showing my age if I say I preferred the tins) because they were on a good offer at tesco, put them away in the cupboard for christmas time (it takes 2 tubs to fill up the 3 kids advent calendars). Spotted only one was there the next day, asked DH if he'd put it somewhere else, but no. Got 13yo son into kitchen, asked if he'd taken it, and he admitted it. Brought leftovers downstairs, and there was literally ten chocolates left. He'd eaten the rest (in less than a day).
We've always been really clear that we need them to tell the truth, as otherwise there is a consequence for what they did (eg taking chocs) and another for lying about it.
I know 13yo's have massive hormonal surges and impulse control issues and struggling to work themselves out, but this is just getting ridiculous. His weight and teeth are fine, he walks to and from school five days a week which is just over 2.5 miles each day, eats maybe 3 or 4 slices of toast for breakfast, then a bacon roll when he gets to school, school hot dinner, 2 apples when he gets home, and tea might be pasta, or soup with bread, or veg stew or something like that, along with another piece of fruit. I get that he's growing like a weed but can always have fruit or toast for a snack if he's hungry, so I can't see it's just hunger, but have pretty much run out of patience! It's not even like it's only food he takes - long story but we had a lot of cash in the house a few weeks ago and know that he took at least £100.
Are all teens like this and I need to get my head round it? I hate having to think twice about what I should do with a handful of change because I worry that if I leave it somewhere he might see it then he'll take it! Do your teens do this? What should I do???

A poster up thread suggested weed smoking..... This is possible..... The money going missing and eating excessively. Actually you CAN'T usually smell it on them. The most noticeable signs are coming home tired and hungry with bloodshot eyes.

You can smell weed on someone most of the time. It's incredibly noticeable.
Weed doesn't cause this level of eating.
Eyes aren't always bloodshot.
Not all weed makes you tired.

I think you're nit picking over a poor choice of words

But what we call it affects how we react to it. “Stealing” is a big emotive word. I would use the word “stealing” about taking 100 pounds but not about eating 2 boxes of Roses. And “stealing the Christmas chocolates” sounds especially awful but I do wonder if her DS knew that’s what they were bought for? Sometimes it's better to use less emotive language. I once re-wrote a petty theft as "borrowing without permission" (very different circumstances but my DS never did it again)

OK klienz I'll take your point. Just like I said. It's hugely stressful and I think it probably is just a poor choice of words.

I'd worry that the money he's taken and maybe some of the food(you mentioned it being a deprived area)the treat stuff he's been giving to other children either because of bullying or because he's trying to make friends or trying to fend off bullying.

With the money you give him I don't know if that's because it's all you can afford or that's just a figure you decide on but our 5DC and most if not nearly all of they're friends get alot more than £2 a week.

Our 13 year old DD and 15 year old DS get £7 a week pocket money and they get £2 each every school day,so they both get £17 a week.

It's so expensive now to even just go swimming or to the cinema for teenagers I can't imagine £2 a week is going to leave very many options open for your DS.

Ice I have first hand experience- you CAN'T always smell weed. And I didn't say it causes this level of eating OR that all weed makes you tired. I said it's a possibility.

Bring him to the police station and have them speak to him (aka scare the shit out of him) this happened with my bro when we were kids he took mams B-Day money and he never took a penny more after that. Was also grounded for a week. He was around 12.

Please enlighten me on which strains don't smell then. Because ive never come across a single one where the smell wouldn't linger for some time. Someone who doesn't smoke it will notice even more.

ice FGS! Are you being deliberately obtuse? I wouldn't know which strains don't smell, I've never smoked any. Somebody close to me was smoking it on occasion, outside, and none of us could smell a thing when they came inside, even though I suspected so was sniffing for any sign of smoke. And none of us smoke either.

ice I take your point about this being incredibly difficult to live with.

On the other hand I think you are saying 2 different things - am I and other postersnitpicking, or is the OP using the wrong, misleading word - not just with us, but with her family too? There's a difference. The first suggests I am at fault, the second is more of a problem with the OPs mindset

I'm not trying to be mean by the way. I just really don't think it's weed. When you look at what the OP describes;

A lot of his punishments are entertainment things in the home rather than telling him he can't go out with his friends. That tells me that's what he likes doing most and what he spends more time doing.

He gets £3 a week was it? He's not affording weed on that and the majority of the things he's stealing aren't of any actual value and he's using them himself anyway. He'd have to be out of the house a whole lot.

So that leaves nipping out occasionally for a joint and then coming home - which you'd smell. He'd have to be gone hours for the smell to wear off when he gets home to people who don't smoke it.

Or smoking it at home. Which would leave a noticeable smell. You cannot smoke weed without it smelling.

You are wrong ice.

I convinced myself there was no problem as I could never smell it. I was wrong though, you CAN'T rely on detecting the smell. Not trying to derail though- it doesn't sound as if this is the OP's son's issue. I'm just warning parents- don't assume you will smell weed.

Just because a few don't notice it or identify it as weed doesn't mean it isn't there.

I'm not saying not being able to smell it should be taken as a definite answer they're not! I'm saying that in this specific circumstance I really don't think he is out of the house enough to be funding, indulging in and hiding a weed habbit (if the person knows what it should smell like. Lots of people expect a nasty smell and brush off an odd but "sweet" scent as they've borrowed a mates bodyspray).

And I was also pointing out thathat the "signs" a PP pointed out are definitely not applicable to everyone and that you shouldn't make any assumptions based off those things.

by the logic of all the 'aw poor lamb he's only stealing because mummy is nasty and starves him and doesn't give him enough pocket money' posters, if I thought I wasn't getting paid enough in work I would be perfectly entitled to steal from my employers, with no repercussions to me, even if it meant the rest of my colleagues then got their pay cut to balance the theft, right?

Also from what you have said about his social situation I wouldn’t stop him going to Scouts as punishment. If he is not socialising with school friends then he really does need to be in other social situations, he needs to develop his social abilities and Scouts may be a more positive outlet than school right now. I agree with the poster who suggested giving him chores to do as punishment instead - something positive to earn your approval back, not just taking more things away.

And I would be thinking about social media too. My DS went through a hermit phase from age 12-ish to 15-ish when he wasn’t bullied at school but he didn’t see anyone outside. At that point he got a lot of mileage out of socialising through online games - we started him on Travian which is well moderated and reasonably safe. (And not in his own room at that age.) When he got older and started to make friends at school he needed to use social media more. It used to piss me off that he’d rather sit in his room chatting electronically than get together in real life but a lot of teenage boys are like that. It’s only in the last couple of years (16 onwards) that he’s really started going out with his friends.

Looks like your DS doesn't have friends to go out with and hence is trying to make himself feel good with all the sweets. Not inviting him back to their birthday do shows they are not friends.

I am sorry to say but looks like you are quite conservative and strict family - no console in bedroom, no laptop, expecting him to tell before he eats etc. As a result he reads lots of books and plays lego. There is nothing wrong with being that way but it makes it difficult for him in his teenage years.

My DS used to have a friend like that and the boy really struggled with making friends. He was a very nice boy but he did things which were not considered "cool" for other boys. My DS kept friendship with him but did tell me that he struggled to engage with him when they were in large groups discussing some console game which he didn't have or when they were planning to do smth together and he never was able to tell whether he can do it or not before talking to his parents. Of course everybody including my DS asked their parents as well but they had pretty good idea what and when will be allowed whereas this boy had no idea with strict parents he had.
He also was eating hips of chocolate when he was coming to ours. We always had candies and chocolates in a dish on the table - I never had restrictions on them and they usually were there for a long time. When this boy was coming they all suddenly disappeared to the degree that I started worrying about his sugar consumption in one go. Turned out his chocolate consumption was very much regulated at home hence he tried to compensate when he was out.

I don't really have good advice because each family is different and I respect that but I think you need to look a bit deeper and see this is not just stealing but him being quite unhappy.

by the logic of all the 'aw poor lamb he's only stealing because mummy is nasty and starves him and doesn't give him enough pocket money' posters, if I thought I wasn't getting paid enough in work I would be perfectly entitled to steal from my employers, with no repercussions to me, even if it meant the rest of my colleagues then got their pay cut to balance the theft, right?

Yeah, I think that is the concensus view of the thread: it's OK to steal from your employers

Really sorry Ive not read every post...this post reminds me of my dd stealing from her grandmother, she wanted the money to be able to not be the odd one out when going on a shopping trip with friends, she owned upstraight away and she was made to repay it with her pocket money
But more worryingly is it also reminds me of a little girl I used to be a nanny for, she had a younger brother and an older sister who had serious behaviour issues and a vile temper. I couldn't find her one evening when tea was ready and when I did I found her huddled in the bottom of her bedroom cupboard surrounded by empty sweet wrappers. My heart broke for her....maybe you could dig a little into why,is he having issues with his sibling with special needs, something going on at school? It's not normal behaviour but might be more complicated than just naughty

Okay.
Thank you everyone, for sharing your thoughts and suggestions - I've found some very helpful, and even those points of view I don't necessarily agree with have shown me how much variation there is across parenting styles.
I was trying to work out if this was a 'normal' stage or not, and it seems many other kids do/have done something similar-ish, which I find reassuring. I'm sure he would feel vindicated that so many think I'm being harsh and unreasonable and I'm getting exactly what I deserve for not feeding him enough/properly, and not giving him more cash.
I stand by the use of the word 'stealing' though - in my opinion that's what it is called when someone takes things the way he has. I don't believe he's on drugs, or currently being bullied, for all sorts of reasons, but I do accept that he may have all kinds of things going on for him which means that to him he hasn't done anything wrong, or that what he's done is justifiable.
A few specific points I'd like to respond to though -
Yes, he knew they were the chocolates to go in his and his siblings advent calendars - when he saw me unpack them from the shopping he asked if they were for that and if I was going to put them in the loft with the calendars.
Yes, I know £2 a week isn't much. However, if there's something he wants to do (eg go out to cinema or hang out in town or go swimming with friends) we give him the money to cover tickets/snack/drink/bus etc. (At least we suggest and offer - in reality he's done this once in the past 3 years)
Punishments do tend to be taking away entertainment things - because that's what he does. (See previous point!)
I would love him to have more friends/develop greater social skills, but there's a limit to how much I can do here! He has opportunities to have friends over, we can pick them up if they're too far away and family aren't happy for them to make their own way here, he can go to others houses (as long as he lets us know). His sister has the same friend over the same day every week, and has done for over a year - he knows he's welcome to invite people on weekends etc too.
I encourage him to take part in after school activities, but many clubs etc are sports and he just has no interest- hates PE in all its forms. He loves science club and similar, but pretty tricky to find other things which appeal to him, which restricts opportunities for him to socialise outside of after school clubs.
He's been offered opportunities to earn more pocket money plenty of times - washing the van for example, or hoovering the stairs. He would rather read, and I see that as him making a choice. We ran out of milk the other day and I offered him 50p to get some from the shop (literally 90 seconds walk away), but he didn't want to. Instead I had to mess about with a wheelchair and an O2 tank out in the rain, which I did rather than telling him he had to do as I said.
He's an intelligent, well mannered young man, which makes this all the more frustrating. I don't know what to do to prevent this from becoming a bigger deal than it already is, and I'm scared he's going to start taking things from friends (risking those social bonds he has formed) or even shoplifting, which could impact on the rest of his life if he gets caught.
I wish he didn't have to deal with the stresses that come along with having a disabled sibling, but there's nothing I can do about it, other than try and minimise the day to day stuff - for example I would never leave him 'in charge' because there are many aspects of his siblings care which would make this inappropriate and unfair.
I just wanted to hear what other people thought - so thanks folks.

if I thought I wasn't getting paid enough in work I would be perfectly entitled to steal from my employers, with no repercussions to me, even if it meant the rest of my colleagues then got their pay cut to balance the theft, right?

Not really. If an employer was paying their staff in clothes and shoes and deodorant and books instead of money and was having a problem with an employee taking cash from the till, then an employer’s forum might suggest they try paying their staff in cash instead.

The OP has tried some repercussions but they have not worked, so there’s no reason to suppose that more of the same will work any better. We are looking at alternatives.

My friends daughter did this - ate loads of chocolates meant for christmas, and it turned out she was diabetic! Is he showing signs of excessive thirst? I don't want to scare you but it may be worth checking him over via his GP before you take things further. Does he have anybody to talk to? apart from you and family? I got my DS appointments with a pastor when he started showing signs of not coping with this awful stage in his life.

50p to go to the shop?? Not surprised he didn't want to! He does sound rather unhappy and struggling to fit in.

Maybe I wasn't clear. I needed milk and for lots of reasons it's difficult for me to get out. I asked if he would go for me - 90 seconds there, 90 seconds back, and he'd 'earn' 50p for doing that. I don't think that is unreasonable actually - helping me out in this way a few times a week and it would soon add up. I can't afford to offer him a couple of quid every time I ask him to help out with something, and it's not like I wanted him to get something for me - it was milk for everyone which was needed for the main family meal. Do you really think it's unreasonable to ask him to pitch in and help out?

It's not at all unreasonable to ask him to go for milk 90 seconds away. I'd just have told him to go. No 50p.

What's unreasonable is where you have the bar set for money for him. I understand being skint, really I do, but you aren't letting him have any autonomy over what he spends. I feel honestly so sorry for him. The way you are living your life, the way you are treating him, is socially isolating him. I understand you don't mean to, I really do, but I think he is coming across as isolated and lonely.

He's the weirdo that plays wth lego doesn't do x box has the odd sibling and the food is weird.

I will guarantee that's what other teenaged boys think. Guarantee that's been said about him.

Please note it is NOT my opinion.

OP I think you've been given an unnecessarily hard time on this thread. You sound like you really care and are doing your best. Sometimes the anonymity of mn and a bit of a herd mentality means we forget that behind the post there's a mum who's trying hard and like the rest of us, being confronted with challenges they've not encountered before.

If I were in your position (and I'm not, mine are pre school so by all means ignore me) I would try a couple of things. Increasing meal size/protein and his freedom to eat what's in the house. Within reason obviously.

Could you chat to him about changing the way finances are managed. Eg discussing giving him a weekly allowance that covers all his expenses. You say you cover costs of things if he asks but maybe as a trial he could have the money anyway. In return he doesn't get to ask for additional things, you don't treat him to books etc and he doesn't steal from you.

And I think it's totally reasonable for him to pitch in. Even without the offer of money. He's growing up, you're considering giving him some additional freedom so he'll have to have some responsibility with it.

That's my tuppence worth at any rate. Parenting is hard, you're doing your best.