AIBU to expect my 13yo not to steal from me?

[Icantthinkofanothername]

(Have name changed obv)
He takes EVERYTHING. As in, there's some cash on the side in the kitchen - change from fish and chips yesterday - and he took a pound coin (brought it to me after his sister told him I had noticed it was gone). DH & I have a drawer in the kitchen with 'our' snacks in - nuts, dried fruit, chocolates - and a couple of weeks ago he took the chocolate bar that was in there - 150g dairy milk that was for me for a week, and he scoffed the whole thing. He took an unopened pack of (10) caramel rocky bars last weekend, ate the lot - wrappers all under his pillow. I got two tubs of roses (am I showing my age if I say I preferred the tins) because they were on a good offer at tesco, put them away in the cupboard for christmas time (it takes 2 tubs to fill up the 3 kids advent calendars). Spotted only one was there the next day, asked DH if he'd put it somewhere else, but no. Got 13yo son into kitchen, asked if he'd taken it, and he admitted it. Brought leftovers downstairs, and there was literally ten chocolates left. He'd eaten the rest (in less than a day).
We've always been really clear that we need them to tell the truth, as otherwise there is a consequence for what they did (eg taking chocs) and another for lying about it.
I know 13yo's have massive hormonal surges and impulse control issues and struggling to work themselves out, but this is just getting ridiculous. His weight and teeth are fine, he walks to and from school five days a week which is just over 2.5 miles each day, eats maybe 3 or 4 slices of toast for breakfast, then a bacon roll when he gets to school, school hot dinner, 2 apples when he gets home, and tea might be pasta, or soup with bread, or veg stew or something like that, along with another piece of fruit. I get that he's growing like a weed but can always have fruit or toast for a snack if he's hungry, so I can't see it's just hunger, but have pretty much run out of patience! It's not even like it's only food he takes - long story but we had a lot of cash in the house a few weeks ago and know that he took at least £100.
Are all teens like this and I need to get my head round it? I hate having to think twice about what I should do with a handful of change because I worry that if I leave it somewhere he might see it then he'll take it! Do your teens do this? What should I do???

This is briefer than it should be but I have to go out.

I used to do this when I was about your son's age. I'm a very well adjusted adult who wouldn't dream of stealing now.

I realise it might not be the same issue at all but I was binge eating. My mum was overweight and had (still has) a phenomenally unhealthy relationship with food. She was so paranoid that I'd be fat that she restricted my food from the age of about 11. looking back there was no way I'd expect a growing teen to make it through a day on what she thought I should eat. I was hungry but very early on made to feel ashamed of that, as though hunger was a failing. So instead of eating more actual food I started to sneak biscuits/sweets etc when I could. Then it escalated to an association between chocolate and happiness? Relaxation? If there wasn't enough food in the house I'd take money from her purse. I don't know when I stopped. I sort of grew out of it at maybe 16? I think once I had a job and my own money and less of her policing what I ate.

Ultimately I'm an adult with binge eating disorder and occasional periods of bulimia. But not a thieving ne'er do well (!) like j say this might be totally different to your situation but I thought I'd share anyway (never told anyone about this irl)

think he have been trying to kind of buy their friendship - that sounds very likely to me.

In your defence OP we also have separate boxes for 'treats' - DD14 has a very sweet tooth and tbh if I put a pack of eg chocolate biscuits in the cupboard she'd go through them pretty quickly while the healthier stuff went off in the fridge. It's not about making your home feel like a boarding school but with some kids if there are treats in the house then you need to monitor them a bit so they're shared fairly with other family members and also balanced with other types of food.

I did this at the same age, stole sweets or stole money to buy sweets, toys or clothes. If I didn't have any money I'd shoplift instead. I would binge on sweets but didn't/don't have an eating disorder. It's something I grew out of and as an adult I don't have a criminal record and have never been in trouble with the law.

I've never really thought about why I did it, a couple of reasons I suppose. I didn't have a close relationship to my parents, they weren't the sort of parents you could confide in. I was badly bullied at school and didn't have much self esteem. My parents would buy me clothes and essentials but it was very much their choice not mine, they didn't understand about things like having the 'right' clothes and I was always conscious of being the odd one out on non uniform days and picked on for it. I was given pocket money of a pound a week but that was noticeably less than my friends and I would often be the only one in our group who couldn't buy a treat after school or afford to go to town on weekends.

I guess I stole to be able to have the same things as my mates, to fit in, to buy sweets to cheer myself up on what was otherwise a miserable day, to stick two fingers up to the world. I didn't really care about the enotional effect it would have on my parents, I suppose because I felt they didn't much care about how I felt either.

Talk to him.

My DC is the same age and does the same thig. With one thing apart, he eats more than you ds. So my first reaction would be to ask if he actually isn't still hungry and in need to eat much more protein. I haven't seen yet a teenager happy to eat a fruit to calm his hunger down. It just doesn't seem to work.

I also have the 'i don't know' when eating so many sweets and chocolate. I suspect there is quite a bit of emotional eating going on.

But I wouldn't see that as stealing as such.
The idea that there are some 'treats for me and DH' is surprising for me. Your dcs aren't young anymore, are you saying that they still not worth 'better quality treats' than you?
I would have had a massive issue with £100 though

Are sweet boxes really that odd? It's just a way to make sure that the kids don't 'accidentally' eat each others easter eggs etc! Then if they want something to eat when watching a film or something they eat something from their own box - we still have 'proper' puddings as a family - lemon layer pudding after dinner for example.

Wannabe - £80 a month for your 15yo?! Wow - maybe my kids are deprived!
CAMHS in my area is hugely pressured - I know many parents who are struggling with yp with dx of ADHD for example who are told it is an 18 month wait to see anyone.
And yes, our eldest has SN, as in doesn't walk or talk and is on several meds every day and hospital overnight a couple of times a month on average. Since the other 2 were tiny we've made sure we give them individual attention and time with us on a regular basis to try and minimise the impact, but this is real life, and if there's a crisis we have to deal with it. (Sorry, sensitive subject!)

My DS is 9 so can only really go on what I think , from tales from friends and how my child is..

You say he has a couple of £2's a week... What is he expected to do with that..Does he have money to go to acitivites, he wants to do,.My 9 year old gets that at his age to get used to having money and realising when it has gone its gone.

Are you vegetarian? I would strongly look at adding protiens, can you add lentils to soup, keep quorn snacks in. I cannot imagine my DS been full on a bowl of soup.

It sounds like everything he takes and consumes vast quantities of is a sugary treat, and it's not an issue with anything else.

It seems like you are too strict on sugar and so you have caused it to have vast attraction

That you have separate food for you and DH that the children aren't allowed would just increase temptation to be honest as you have imbued the food with a magical illicit quality that it doesn't really have.

This isn't normal OP, I have 2 with Aspergers, they both do this, exactly as you have stated.
The older one is an adult now, but it was still going until recently.
I have no idea why they do it, CAMHS thought it some sort of control mechanism.
Once ds1 stole a substantial amount of money from us, think business takings.
He was late teen and if we could have slept at night knowing he was ok, we would have chucked him out.
But he'd never have managed on his own.
I don't know the answer OP, still have a younger one doing it.
All I can say is we lock our money away now or take the chance

Its not normal and I wonder if he is being pressured to supply other kids or feels he needs to buy their friendship?

There are definite food issues tbh. I remember eating about 10 roast potatoes regularly at that age, and yes whole blocks of cooking chocolate.

Might have fessed up / or not - but never thought eating whatever food was in the house as being stealing.

Food for the adults vs food for the child - v odd. Don't take this the wrong way - is DH DS's father? Just wondering if there are jelousy issues.

The diet required for middle aged people (ie us) is totally different for growing kids.

How much protein is he eating? As pps have said, toast and more toast isn't great. He needs a heartier breakfast. And access to a variety of snacks. Carbohydrates are ok in moderation but it sounds like he's getting definitely getting an abundance of these so get some higher protein options as well.

Regarding the money, I would want to know why he's taking it. Is it to buy food. Is he being bullied for money? Or does he want the money to do stuff with his friends? Or buy himself stuff?

And yes, definitely discuss and impose consequences for stealing. Whatever you think will have the most impact. Rights to technology, grounding, stripping his room of everything apart from his bed and school stuff, missing scouts Etc. I wouldn't do something, which lasted for an extended period otherwise he may just ignore the consequences. This in addition to earning the money back by doing shitty jobs. Even if he ends up litter picking in the local park under your supervision.

You haven't punished him thus far. I think a big line needs to be drawn and behaviour tackled differently from now on. So getting to the bottom of why first would be my first port of call.

I'm not a mum of teens but I've seen a much younger cousin go off the rails and have discussed what needed to be done with relations parents of teens. Please feel free anyone to amend if they think my suggestions aren't feasible.

And I also meant to say, he doesn't get enough financial freedom at his age. So this could be part of the problem.

You don't have to be fat/thin or gain/lose spectacular amounts of weight to have an eating disorder. Eating huge amounts of food, like a tub of chocolates in one sitting and then hiding the evidence is very indicative of an issue. I would be more concerned with getting to the bottom of this issue than anything else. Is he stealing money to buy food? It sounds like it.

Thank you for sharing TrulyMadly, sounds like you had a lot to contend with and found a way to manage that worked at the time.
TheDevilMadeMeDoIt thank you - what you said makes a lot of sense. I think he does feel 'less' than his friends at times, but at a loss to know how to help support him with that. From an adults point of view he has more opportunities than most of them do (scouts, activities in holidays etc) but I know he doesn't get some of what they have - own TV/games console in bedroom, laptop, allowed to watch TV til the early hours of the morning etc. We regularly offer to drop him and friends at cinema/town etc, or cash for him to get the bus with them if he'd rather, for them to come over to ours or him to theirs but he's never taken us up on it. Not sure if they're just a bit young for that to be appealing- he's year 9.
MammouthTask - nothing to do with quality of treats - just that their extra-to-meals eat-when-they-fancy-it personal stuff is in one place, and mine and DHs is in another. That way they can last their easter eggs (for eg) til the following easter if they want(!), or eat them all at once - their choice.

I really think your 13 year old should be allowed to make himself beans on toast, or an omelette or a bacon sandwich or something though.

Why on earth do you restrict him in that way?

As a teen I used to pinch sweets and biscuits, purely for the fact I was never allowed them otherwise. My mum used to fill a sweet tin but if I asked there was always a reason why I couldn't have it, but my siste was allowed free range with pretty much anything she wanted. Even when I started to earn my own money and used to buy sweet stuff I was punished for eating it in secret, wasn't allowed it if I was open with it! I now have a box full of junk and crap! My youngest son has ASD and very sticky fingers, the DC were allowed to help themselves ( within reason such as close to meal times) to anything provided they told me they'd had it so I knew when to buy more, he never told us what he had, until I found wrappers hidden in the most obvious places. However this behaviour escalated to him helping himself to anything he fancied, money, clothes, laptops etc. Nothing was sacred. It got to the point I used to have to take my handbag to bed with me, DD ended up with a lock on her door. The final straw was money we had been given for Christmas disappeared and the gift envelopes were found in his draw, we asked a local policeman to have a word, didn't hit home or bother him at all. At one point we removed everything from his room apart from his bed. No effect at all. We ended up finding him somewhere else to live and I support him from here to live in his flat. He is the only one of 3 DC that doesn't have a key and I never turn my back on him. He is very manipulative. I have since tried to ask why he did those things and he claims he doesn't know, so having a conversation with him might not work, maybe ask him why he is taking the food, is he hungry or just comfort eating? Is it a cry for attention ? Only you know your home circumstances. You need to nip the money stealing in the bud, I wouldn't stop scouts as it seems to be his only outlet, but maybe you could tell him that you feel the need to tell the scout leader about the theft and see if that has any effect, the chances are you wont be the first parent to have this issue at that group. Maybe you could give him chores to do to earn more money. I saw a photo of a list of jobs with a money value beside it, and the children could initial the jobs they had done for payment at the end of the week, it doesn't single him out and you get jobs done too! I would also discourage your DD in telling tales, it just breeds resentment. I think he is struggling to make friends, might be worth inviting some of the crowd he hangs with to come home with him?

It doesn't sound like it's just to stop the children eating each others' treats if you and your DH have a drawer of food / treats that are just for you. I do think it sounds weird - food in our home is for everyone with perhaps the exception of an Easter egg but you don't need a sweet box to deal with that.

Does your son's school have a counsellor? If so, maybe he would benefit from a confidential chat with him/her.

I find your ethos around meals and snacks very restrictive if I'm honest. When I was growing up, if I wanted a biscuit, I'd go and eat a biscuit - food was communal, and there for the taking.

Asking permission for anything other than wholemeal today or fruit sounds fine for an 8 year old, but your boy could be living independently in 3-5 years, he needs some independence when it comes to food. I feel that your attitude is making food into a bigger issue in the house than it should be.

I think that by 13, a person should be able to make a decent snack or basic cooked meal for themselves, and should be learning to regulate their own diet.

I certainly don't think eating food at home, save for Christmas chocolates is stealing. Eating a whole packet isn't ideal, but is it surprising when it's become such a taboo. Maybe your system works well when the children were younger, but as your son hits his teenage years perhaps it needs reassessing.

The money thing is a whole different issue, and I think you need a stern talking to him about that.

I have two older ds who at that age would eat the legs off the table. My brothers were the same. They would have dinner at school and another one at home as at least it was proper food. They would have cereal before bed. All snacks were for the family and they eat no chocolate or sweets now. Do like crisps. Forbidden food is always very attractive. Stop buying it. Snacks at weekends only. Punishment for eating food sitting there in your own house issue introducing a lot of strife into your relationship. You often read here that adults don't buy sweets until Christmas week as they would eat them.
The 100 pounds is very worrying. Did he admit to taking it? Where is it? Try to talk in a non threatening way to him as he sounds very unhappy.

Give him more protein.

Too little protein = craving for sweet things from what I've read.

His behaviour is telling you he is unhappy....punishing clearly isn't working
^^yes this
It seems like he is using the food and money to make himself feel better about himself.
You cannot punish a child into behaving better. Punishing him will make him feel even more unhappy.

OP, opposed as I am to diagnonsense via internet, I would suggest you don't dismiss the idea of an eating disorder completely as bulimics frequently maintain a healthy weight. Do you have any idea of the timescale in which he's eating the things he's been taking - if he ate a chocolate bar a day that's one thing; the whole lot in one go is another. Demographically speaking, from what you've told us I think he might reasonably be considered to fall into the at-risk category for developing an eating disorder in terms of being introverted, academic & possibly experiencing issues common to siblings of children with SEN or other disabilities (e.g. feelings of being less important etc - please PLEASE don't take that as a criticism of you, nor anyone else who has a child or children with SEN or other disabilities, am not assuming it IS the case, just noting it is possible as it is frequently observed). When was his last check-up at the dentist?

As far as the stealing goes, what are his Scout Leaders like? I know if a parent came to me about a Guide/Ranger who had been doing something similar I'd be happy to talk to the child in question (with another adult in earshot, obviously!) if the parent[s] felt it would be helpful. Even if that's not a way to go, it might be worth reminding him yourself that he is a Scout - the first Law is that a Scout is to be trusted, the 6th includes a bit about being careful of possessions & property & the 7th is about respect for self & others. If Scouts is His Thing he presumably does care about it - is he a Patrol Leader/Second? If so, ask if you think his behaviour is suitable & warn him if he steals money again you will have to tell his Scout Leaders & they might not feel able to let him continue in that role. (With a Guide we'd have A Very Serious Talk if parents told us they'd nicked a hundred quid...)

I'm sorry, I've just realised I've misread SN as SEN somewhere OP, and thus put that in my post. My eyes aren't focusing properly at the moment but that's an unfortunate mistake to make as obviously they are two distinct (though sometimes overlapping) things.

A happy child dosnt do this....somewhere along the lines you are missing something.he is clearly unhappy....you have made an issue with food where there shouldn't be one...put food in a cupboard where people can SELF REGULTE their food intake....how will he learn a reasonable amount to eat if you control it..money...he wouldn't steal if he had enough for what he needs...does he have a regular amount going in to a bank account that he can access when he needs with out permission

Also,he's clearly unhappy,so why add to that with punishment..you seem determined for him to hate you