AIBU to expect my 13yo not to steal from me?

[Icantthinkofanothername]

(Have name changed obv)
He takes EVERYTHING. As in, there's some cash on the side in the kitchen - change from fish and chips yesterday - and he took a pound coin (brought it to me after his sister told him I had noticed it was gone). DH & I have a drawer in the kitchen with 'our' snacks in - nuts, dried fruit, chocolates - and a couple of weeks ago he took the chocolate bar that was in there - 150g dairy milk that was for me for a week, and he scoffed the whole thing. He took an unopened pack of (10) caramel rocky bars last weekend, ate the lot - wrappers all under his pillow. I got two tubs of roses (am I showing my age if I say I preferred the tins) because they were on a good offer at tesco, put them away in the cupboard for christmas time (it takes 2 tubs to fill up the 3 kids advent calendars). Spotted only one was there the next day, asked DH if he'd put it somewhere else, but no. Got 13yo son into kitchen, asked if he'd taken it, and he admitted it. Brought leftovers downstairs, and there was literally ten chocolates left. He'd eaten the rest (in less than a day).
We've always been really clear that we need them to tell the truth, as otherwise there is a consequence for what they did (eg taking chocs) and another for lying about it.
I know 13yo's have massive hormonal surges and impulse control issues and struggling to work themselves out, but this is just getting ridiculous. His weight and teeth are fine, he walks to and from school five days a week which is just over 2.5 miles each day, eats maybe 3 or 4 slices of toast for breakfast, then a bacon roll when he gets to school, school hot dinner, 2 apples when he gets home, and tea might be pasta, or soup with bread, or veg stew or something like that, along with another piece of fruit. I get that he's growing like a weed but can always have fruit or toast for a snack if he's hungry, so I can't see it's just hunger, but have pretty much run out of patience! It's not even like it's only food he takes - long story but we had a lot of cash in the house a few weeks ago and know that he took at least £100.
Are all teens like this and I need to get my head round it? I hate having to think twice about what I should do with a handful of change because I worry that if I leave it somewhere he might see it then he'll take it! Do your teens do this? What should I do???

AnotherOneBitTheDust Thank you!
As far as money is concerned we aren't skint (although we have been in the past) but neither do we have enough money to carry out some posters suggestions. (Which is why I got the Roses now - two tubs for £7 now means sweets for advent calendars is sorted - in a couple of months they'll be a fiver each) We are careful - like most of you I expect, we have to be. We can pay the rent and council tax and car insurance and bills, but we haven't been on holiday in 6 years and when we did it was camping at a basic campsite on the south coast. I buy my clothes in the sales, and budget carefully through the year so we can afford to get the kids things we know they want for Christmas and birthdays.
I don't have a problem with him making himself snacks but I want to know what they are - if he eats all the tins of beans for example I might promise beans on toast for the younger sibling then go to the cupboard and there's none there. He would sort it himself, eat it and (most likely) put his washing up next to the sink.
I don't make his breakfast, but I'm there when he's making and eating it, sat at the table with all of us chatting about what lessons they have that day, what teacher they like/don't like, so and so's wedding in a couple of weeks. I'll dig out the egg poachers tomorrow and we'll have a play with them, and let him there's beans for breakfast on toast if he fancies it, or poached eggs or scrambled.

Hm yes, stealing money from family can be a sign of anger and that fits what your DS is saying. So, OK. His anger may not be very sensible but it’s real.

Maybe you have an escalation problem - he does something a bit naughty (pinches some sweets), you punish him, he gets more angry and does something worse, you punish him some more, and so it goes. It sounds as if he feels your original punishment was unfair. Can you go back to the original “crime” and talk to him about that? And can he help himself to current buns, cheese sandwiches, crumpets? Inexpensive stuff that really fills the gap. He shouldn’t have to ask, my DS (also not fat) pigged out on bread, oatcakes etc between meals, and I was endlessly topping up the cheese supply. I only told him off if mealtime was about to happen!

A couple of pounds a week isn’t much. It sounds as if he wants more control and independence, and maybe more positive attention too. You may be treating him the same as your eldest but your eldest may not have felt the same way, children do vary. I’m a middle child and I had some of those issues, it didn’t come out as stealing but I did have issues that my other siblings didn’t just because of my position in the family. You wouldn’t want to just hand money over but could he earn more spending money by doing extra chores? And getting lots of praise and compliments for doing them too?

At about that age (a year or two older I think) my Mum gave me a clothing allowance and let me get on with it. I would spend the day at the market with my friends and I found bargains she didn’t have time to hunt out. Sure, I didn’t buy much new school uniform but that was my problem to deal with the school Boys maybe don’t have the same clothes issue, but it’s about control. So maybe don’t buy the books for him, give him book money and let him do it all himself? Or maybe he'd rather save up and buy computer games himself so he's got more in common with his school friends? I'm not sure though, maybe you buying the books he chooses is a nice thing. Talk to him about it and see what he'd prefer.

It is not normal to pick up others change just because its there he does need to be told and punished for this.

He has effectively no money. £2 will buy him two packets of sweets. It won't even get him a magazine. Or a book.

Think how that feels. You can't go for a coffee after school. You can't hang out with anyone. You can't buy points for the x box.

I really feel quite sorry for him.

When my ex was financially abusing me. I had everything bought for me. There was loads of food and tons of it. I wanted for nothing.

But I had to ask. I had to account for it. What I wanted it for what I spent it on.

I used to take the change out of his trousers just to go for a coffee he didn't know about. A lipstick. Small stuff. Just for me that I chose.

This boy is in a similar situation - not that the op is financially abusive, bit she isn't giving him the age appropriate freedom to choose for himself.

DS1 (13) is going through this "phase" right now, except that instead of a whole tin of sweets he would much rather have a whole loaf of bread (he has eaten an entire tiger baguette in one sitting before).

He has stolen the odd pound coin from me, so I took that same amount from his bank account ( he never bothers to log in to online banking ).

He sounds lonely and friendless.
Also having a SN older brother might make him feel different from others his age.
If he is angry and taking it out on you and the rest of the family via food and money I would say the above are the reasons.
But obviously he wont' want to admit that no one is his friend, or that he dislikes having a 'different' brother so maybe stealing (which doesn't sound too serious to me) is a distraction for him.
If you baby him a bit that will make it harder for him to make friends. Can he take up a sport, what might he be good at/enjoy?

My mum gave me £3 a week in the 6th form. I couldn't join in with any of the McDonald's runs/cinema trips/bowling, couldn't even buy myself a bag of crisps. I think maybe he does need more autonomy over his money...but it can't be connected to his stealing obviously as then it would look like a reward?!

I remember cheese and ham toasties being regular snacks for me. My parents limited the amount of crisps and chocolate bars to one per day, so I don't think you are in the wrong there.

Do you all seriously have DC that never take more than their fair share and have such amazing self restraint that they aren't constantly tempted by all the sweets, biscuits and chocolate on offer and only choose one unhealthy snack per day - oh and only after they've eaten their 5 plus portions of fruit and veg, of course?

As a teenager, self-restraint is something they have to learn. By the time they're an adult, they can binge on as much chocolate and crisps as they can afford. You can't police them all their life. So, if you don't encourage them to self-regulate now, when's it going to happen?

My niece used to do this, if there was any chocolate in the house she couldn't control herself and would eat it. After Easter and Christmas she has eaten her siblings Chocolate during the night. She's stolen money too from my mother, though denied it (she was the only one in the house and a week later she had a whole wardrobe of new clothes).

She's now 22 and seems well adjusted. She had some counselling for her binge eating as it was literally like she couldn't help herself.

I don't think taking food in the house is stealing, seems really odd to view it that way. Likewise having a drawer for only adults. It's a sure fire way to ensure a child has issues with food.

The money I would have an issue with but he has nothing to spend and then has to choose between gifts or cash at Christmas/birthdays to last through the year.

On top of all that he has no normal teen things in his room so can't join in and socialise and has to cope with a SN sibling who likely takes up a lot of the parents time.

Is not hard to see why he is acting the way he is.

A poster up thread suggested weed smoking..... This is possible..... The money going missing and eating excessively. Actually you CAN'T usually smell it on them. The most noticeable signs are coming home tired and hungry with bloodshot eyes.

It sounds as though there are a lot of issues to sort through and unpack. Taking chocolate or biscuits that are not labeled as "his" is something that really gets your attention. Not only does he experience the pleasure of sweet treats, he also may feel a bit of a thrill at taking something forbidden, and referring to it as "stealing" may actually make it more gratifying for him. And by escalating from taking chocolates to taking a large quantity of money shows he is screaming out for a response.

This behaviour means something. I would imagine that he is fairly unhappy and lonely, possibly even depressed. Bullying at primary school may have knocked his confidence and it seems he doesn't yet have any real friends at secondary. I also wouldn't underestimate the effect of having a sibling with additional needs. I grew up with a sibling who was on the autism spectrum (at a time when autism was understood even less well than it is now). I love my brother and have always felt protective of him, but I won't deny that there was a considerable amount of stress in our household due to coping with his needs.

I really don't think punishment is the answer. I would look at expanding his social circle, encouraging hobbies and groups beyond Scouts, inviting friends from school to go on outings or to the cinema, etc. I'd also be concerned that he is using reading as a way to hide from the world. Although reading for 8 hours straight is my idea of bliss, combined with everything else you've mentioned, it would worry me that books may have become a less than healthy way for him to avoid social interactions or to distract himself from unhappy thoughts.

"I dont see taking food (not Christmas chocolates but biscuits) from within the family home as stealing."

Agree. I find the whole tone of this thread weird tbh.

Does he want to be vegetarian or is it your decision? Just wondered if that might be a factor?

My brother was exactly like this. He literally regularly did everything you've listed (except that 100 cash of yours was 1000 my brother emptied out of my mums bank).

I have no idea how to stop this. My mum never did and my brother is 25 now and I wouldn't fully trust him. But I know how upsetting it is to not be able to leave things around your own family so have a hug

For the posters saying about taking biscuits and chocolate not being stealing etc.

Taking one or two without asking is normal.

When you've got one kid literally taking everything for no clear reason that's not on or normal. I would not want my child eating that every day.

IceIceIce you may not want your child eating that every day - nobody on here would. But that doesn't make it stealing. OP thinking of it that way is really unhelpful. But she doesn't seem to want to engage with that.

I don't think anyone has said that eating all the family's biscuits and eating them in one sitting is OK. It's the fact that the OP called it 'stealing' that's odd.

DeadGood beat me to it!

Eastmids

OP I have been a bit harsh, and I feel for you as your situation sounds tough. It's great that you have taken on board the hunger thing. I'm having a prickly reaction to your refusal to acknowledge the "stealing food" thing though. Lots of people are saying it. You also seem quite keen on punishments but that ain't working either

Deadgood I understand what you're saying but I think you're nit picking over a poor choice of words.

If we are going to be unnecessarily picky over words I would say if it's from the cupboards I wouldn't call it stealing.
If it's from his siblings or parents personal boxes/bedrooms it is stealing.

Either way it needs to stop regardless of how you choose to define each thing.

Punishments never worked on my brother either. He didn't really care. He sold my playstation once then kicked off when my mum gave me his!

I'll also point out in OPS defense, living like this is fucking difficult. It grinds on you and causes everyone else to be miserable.

It was humiliating and degrading for me to have to quietly warn my friends to not leave valuables In my house because my brother would steal them.

The worst was probably my first boyfriend. He got a BMW (we were teenagers) and the first time he came to my house on it my brother stole it.

My youngest brother and I were constantly going without shit because he'd take them. And it wasn't because he didn't have things. Like the playstation. He had his own. He had his own TV he sold my brothers TV.

He stole bank cards and spent all the Christmas money on runescape. Fucking RUNESCAPE. So my youngest brother and I got nothing for Christmas.

Maybe give her a break because it's dawned stressful and you just get to the point where you want to smash your face into a wall because you can't have anything in your own home without risking it being lifted.

BMX 😂😂😂 not BMW Christ.

My phone is ridiculous sorry for any other mistakes