Where is London?

[namechangenumber45]

This is not intended to be a "London bashing thread" so please take question (from northerner) in spirit intended - one of curiosity.

I have been watching the news and an awful update on situation in Penge where a young boy and woman killed. I've never heard of this suburb and couldn't place it on a map - but on looking it seems to be a bit further from what I'd class as "London".

So my AIBU to ask where London starts and finishes?

Have the boundaries expanded? Are there some areas that would be SouthEast a few years ago but are now London?

"Middlesex" was kept as a postal district into the 80s ... Russell Grant (who lived in Pinner) would pop up in the local rag very so often to launch a campaign to get people to use it.

To be fair, giving my address, I used "MIDDX" for ages ... it was only when I started having foreign penpals I used "LONDON". Because trying to explain the subtleties of UK administrative, postal and democratic boundaries would have taken too much precious time.

People don't deny the 1965 boundary changes, they're just happy to be part of the historical county. Middlesex is a very real place, it has sports teams, a university, military formations all sorts. It's just not an administritive district any more. Choosing to support the middlesex identity doesn't change the fact that middlesex is all in london and surrey now from a local government perspective.

You can be part of both London and Surrey, or Kent or Essex, just like you can be part of both England and the UK, which you use depends on what you're using it for.

Oh. bear in mind Paddington (where I was born ) and St. Johns Wood were in Middlesex. Why do you think the MCC headquarters are at Lords ? (Where the disused station can still be seen on the Met Line).

Oh, and local government administrative regions are not normally a good thing to choose to use for anything other than knowing who's going to collect your bins. It's not an interesting identity to have or talk about for anything else, including answering "So, where do you live?" If the answer Hampton, or Dagenham, or Bromley, London is not a great answer.

user Yes I am not disputing what was in the past! But its not like these changes were last year or something! We are talking 50+ years ago that the current London boundaries were set.

I live on the (southern border) of Kingston and so have a KT postcode but am in Zone 5, have 0208 numbers, the Met Police, voted in Mayoral election it's a London borough. If people ask where I live I say SW London or Surrey, depending on the consequence of my answer! It's definitely not Central London but am as close as places like Walthamstow which people would definitely consider London, I think?

Streatham where I live is Lambeth, it doesn't feel central!

It depends on whether you mean the City of London or the London Boroughs. I live within the M25, but my address says Kent. Though, 2 stops on the train (if they're not cancelled or delayed- Southeastenr Railway I am looking at you!) and you're in an SE postcode, which is London.

I used to live in a town with a Kent postcode but it was the London Borough of xxx.

It's quite confusing.

" We are talking 50+ years ago that the current London boundaries were set"

no I do not think it was that long ago. When I was at school in Edgware in the 70s, it was Edgware , Middx. wonder what it is now.

Kingston is a funny one. It is in Surrey, it has a non-London postcode, yet it is a London borough.

You can be part of both London and Surrey, or Kent or Essex, just like you can be part of both England and the UK, which you use depends on what you're using it for.

There was a thread recently, where - as a born and bred Londoner - I pointed out the way that regions outside London get bogged down in the most ludicrous (think two bald men fighting over a comb) rivalries. Manchester/Liverpool, Birmingham/Solihull.

This thread has made the point I was trying to make in spades. Part of the success of London is due to the way it has knitted together. Hence we had London bid for the olympic covering the whole region.

As I said in the other thread - the separate bids from Birmingham and Solihull for a world sporting event (commonwealth games ?) ensured neither got it.

It's something non-Londoners don't really get - especially ones who have never been to London. I once worked with a 35 year old Brummie who was proud he'd never been to London (checks calendar - yes it is 2016, not 1816 !).

user I can assure you that the current London borough boundaries were set in the "Local Government (London) act 1963" which came into force in 1965 - despite what addresses may have been continued to be used.

oh OK Blanche thanks. So people just carried on using their old addresses.....
I am sure I was still using 'Middx' into the 90s....

Postal towns and counties are another topic altogether tbh and probably very boring!

W4 so definatley London but.....are we Ealing or Hounslow? Plus when dh really wants to needle me he claims we live in acton questions that will never be answered....

People don't deny the 1965 boundary changes, they're just happy to be part of the historical county.

Agree. People can do what they like as long as it's not illegal. I don't think writing Ilford, Essex, on a birthday card is going to bring the police to my door, no matter whether Essex or the Met.

^As a Londoner, I reckon there are several areas
City of London - the square mile.
Central London - anywhere with a London postcode eg N1 NW1 SW1 SE1, E1 etc.
Greater London is the London Boroughs eg LB Merton, LB Richmond, LB Hounslow, LB Hillingdon, LB Bromley, etc., and also areas such as the Royal Borough of Kingston (which technically is in Surrey and part of Surrey County Council).^

However parts of the Greater London boroughs of Merton, Richmond, Hounslow and Kingston also have London postcodes. Kingston is not part of Surrey County Council. Surrey CC has its HQ there but does not administer it.

DH also thinks LB Kensington and Chelsea and LB Lambeth is Greater London but I disagree. I think it's central London!

Your DH is wrong both boroughs are part of the old London County Council area.

But when I used to drop a postcard to my mum in Wealdstone, I would still put ' Middx' - it is still a postal thing isnt it?

No it's not; it's nothing to do with the post office, it's what some people still choose to do. It became redundant as soon as postcodes were introduced in the 1970's

We already had that conversation, CecilyP.

^" We are talking 50+ years ago that the current London boundaries were set"

no I do not think it was that long ago. When I was at school in Edgware in the 70s, it was Edgware , Middx. wonder what it is now.^

Yes, it was 51 and a half years ago that the county of Middlesex ceased to exist. Your school would have been administered by the London Borough that Edgeware is in. It would have used Middx in the address prior to the introduction of postcodes.

DH works for Kingston Council so I'm pretty sure Surrey County Council do not run Kingston.

The boundary changes are really interesting, I didn't know anything about them before this thread. So, technically, I don't have to put Surrey when I give my address? It's on my council tax bill which is what made me presume it was all official like.

DH works for Kingston Council so I'm pretty sure Surrey County Council do not run Kingston.

Correct. However, somewhat bizarrely, Surrey County Council offices are based in Kingston!

Postally, Kingston is Surrey. But administratively it is London.

yes cecily and if you RTFT you will see that we already went over that.

User there us much selective reading going on in this thread

And 0208 or 0207 are not the dialling codes for London. The dialling code for London is 020.