Where is London?

[namechangenumber45]

This is not intended to be a "London bashing thread" so please take question (from northerner) in spirit intended - one of curiosity.

I have been watching the news and an awful update on situation in Penge where a young boy and woman killed. I've never heard of this suburb and couldn't place it on a map - but on looking it seems to be a bit further from what I'd class as "London".

So my AIBU to ask where London starts and finishes?

Have the boundaries expanded? Are there some areas that would be SouthEast a few years ago but are now London?

And 0208 or 0207 are not the dialling codes for London. The dialling code for London is 020.

The 020 bit isn't important it's the 7 or 8

Exactly. The 7 or 8 (or 0 or 3) bare no resemblance to where in London you live

So, technically, I don't have to put Surrey when I give my address?

All that is ever needed is house number* and postcode. Everything else was dreamt up by a cabal of pen manufacturers in the 1960s in a bid to keep sales up. Russell Grant was on a retainer from Bic for many years.

*I know there can be a bunfight between people who insist they "haven't got a number". I have no idea what the truth of this is.

Exactly. The 7 or 8 (or 0 or 3) bare no resemblance to where in London you live

Maybe not now, but not back when it first changed.

So technically, I don't have to put Surrey when I give my address?

Why wouldn't you? with the house prices in Surrey surely every stealth boast opportunity should be maximised?

The London boroughs were created in 1965. There are 32 of them. I used to be able to name them all and probably still could, given a bit of time, because it used to be my job to know things like that.

It also used to be my job to know what people thought of when talking about Essex, East London and the East End, which is a different, but no less important thing within context.

The story of the rise and fall of Humberside interests me. Many people didn't like it though I've no idea why, because I don't live anywhere near it. Anyway, it is no more.

The Royal Mail do not use counties. They are superfluous.

Some people definitely don't have a house number - just a name. Others insist on a name despite having a number. I particularly liked ' The Ponderosa' in Wimbledon - the Tooting side, not the posh side. Does anyone really just write the number and postcode leaving the town name out? Not sure I would dare risk it myself.

For example, Tatsfield has always been in Surrey, and still is. But its delivery office is in Kent, and thus has a 'Kent' postcode.

It should also be noted that having a '020` dialling code does not indicate you're in London, as some 020 numbers are outside London, and some areas in London are not 020. Orpington for example, is in London, but has 01689 as its dialling code.

I think of Penge as London because of the SE postcode. Whereas down the road in Beckenham the address is Beckenham, Kent with BR postcode. Although I think both might come under the London borough of Bromley.
I grew up in that area.

I live in Bromley, always thought that WAS London. We get red London buses and can use our Oyster cards. And can be in the centre in 20 minutes.

I live in Bromley, always thought that WAS London. We get red London buses and can use our Oyster cards

but famously (if you lived the 1980s) no tubes. Hence the crashing end of "Fares Fair"* - one of the most spectacular drives towards public transport usage the world has ever seen. Fuck you, Bromley.

*("ffairs ffayre" in Knightsbridge)

And also, the M25 isn't the boundary of London either, as some of London is outside the M25, but most of the M25 is a few miles outside London.

Does anyone really just write the number and postcode leaving the town name out? Not sure I would dare risk it myself.

If you put the house number and street name followed by the postcode it works. I tested this for work.

I live on a corner and the only front door I've ever noticed since moving in more than 20 years ago is in a different road to the main bulk of my house. It's common round here. Almost everyone, including the local authority, utility companies, the NHS and estate agents offering me tempting deals from foreign buyers keen to launder their money in London, realises what my real address is. It's the street where the main bulk of my house is, not the front door. I didn't decide this. It was like that when I got here and it was probably like that when the house was built.

The only people who seem not to recognise this are from TV licencing. They send threatening letters to The Occupier, Street Number A, Street Around The Corner, Londontown which doesn't exist. The postman knows it's intended for me so pops it through the letter box.

I used to ring them up offering them the chance to change their records because I'm helpful like that. But they couldn't so I gave up. I could kick myself because if only I hadn't been so law abiding I wouldn't have bought a TV licence because they wouldn't have been able to find me. And that goes for their latest announcement of dire punishment for people who watch catch up TV.

They are the kind of mulish people who insist: 'But there are 32 London boroughs created in 1965...'

Bromley like all these places that for some reason people can't accept has been in London since 1965. These changes are in no way recent ( 50 years ago) so not sure why people are so insistent they didn't happen in their world!!

limited why are you so stuck in the 60s btw?

but famously (if you lived the 1980s) no tubes. Hence the crashing end of "Fares Fair"* - one of the most spectacular drives towards public transport usage the world has ever seen. Fuck you, Bromley.

I remember that LurkingHusband and I have an undying hatred for the London Borough of Bromley. It was revived when I learned that most of them voted for Boris Johnson.

One route near me was a green bus. Boris abolished it for those red fake Routemaster ones with the open back doors that aren't really open and that you boil on even in winter if it's sunny.

That green bus did one of the most central routes in Central London.

I live in a South East London borough though postcode is BR Bromley
Our rent, CT and bin collection are all from the London borough

It's easy to tell if you are in London. Blow your nose. If your bogies are black, you're in London. There is one exception to this rule and that is if you have 'clean' bogies but you are in Brighton. Brighton is now officially part of London.

limited why are you so stuck in the 60s btw?

I'm not. I could ask you why the London Government Act 1963 is so important to you, but that would be irrelevant. I take it that it means a lot to you and that's fine by me.

I think the residual old counties thing which is upsetting BlancheBlue so much is actually really interesting. I tend to agree I don't see Bromley or Croydon as being proper London even though they have been since before I was born. My dad was born in one of them long before 1965 and he does not identify as a Londoner now just because his birthplace now is. I wonder whether them being "accepted" as London is going to take either (a) more time or (b) more sprawl/house prices rising or both?

I have an undying hatred for the London Borough of Bromley.

31 boroughs: wouldn't it be a good idea if we all pooled our subsidy to the GLC so all Londoners can use public transport and save lives and the environment.

(Fairs Fare goes live - massively improving the lives of all Londoners by reducing congestion, pollution and road accidents)

Bromley: (whiney voice) "But we haven't got a tube station ! Why should we pay for the rest of London to enjoy a better standard of living ? Even if we do benefit ?"

Law Lords: "Do you know Bromley, you're right. Why should you pay for something you don't use".

Mrs Thatcher "there is no such thing as society"

Or is my memory - if not my conclusion - flawed ?

Next week: Tune in and listen to child-free couples bang on about how unfair it is they should pay tax for child benefit.

Ah! Isn't Bromley now actually discouraging TfL to build the Bakerloo extension out to there? I was baffled by this when I read it and thought I must have got it wrong, but if it's just to hang on to their subsidy it makes perfect sense.