Where is London?

[namechangenumber45]

This is not intended to be a "London bashing thread" so please take question (from northerner) in spirit intended - one of curiosity.

I have been watching the news and an awful update on situation in Penge where a young boy and woman killed. I've never heard of this suburb and couldn't place it on a map - but on looking it seems to be a bit further from what I'd class as "London".

So my AIBU to ask where London starts and finishes?

Have the boundaries expanded? Are there some areas that would be SouthEast a few years ago but are now London?

Knowing how to navigate any roundabout or non-roundabout cannot be the true test of a Londoner, because the more-central a Londoner you are the less likely you are to drive anywhere.

Elephant and Castle isn't a roundabout any more.

No, it mostly resembles a dug up car park.

As does the 'oh shit' roundabout in Lewisham. Where they're building some lovely, desirable flats with a beautiful view of the station and a massive fucking roundabout which they'll then flog for £400k+

Knowing how to navigate any roundabout or non-roundabout cannot be the true test of a Londoner, because the more-central a Londoner you are the less likely you are to drive anywhere.

This is absolutely true. DH doesn't have a licence, and neither do a lot of my friends. I only got my licence when I lived in Norwich and was at the mercy of the most useless bus service in the whole country.

I used to drive when I lived in Central London and it was an interesting experience. Perhaps we could have tests for central Londoners

1. How many bus routes do you know in detail?
2. How many short cuts, back streets do you know to avoid the crowds?
3. Do you automatically stand on the right on all escalators?
4. If you have a car, can you parallel park in a space 6" bigger than your car on a busy bus route without panicking?

Anything within London boroughs are London.

If you live in London you may enjoy this

Or you may not.

People from outside London might like it too.

It actually does not determine if you are a Londoner at all.

I particularly like
"A good service is operating on all lies"

How often do you hear the good service announcement whilst you are stood on an overcrowded platform with no tube for the last 8 mins.

The street name signs are another good indicator of if you are in London or not. Do they have "London borough of....." Written under street name? Also, when your children start school (assuming not privately educated) do you fill in a 'Pan London' school application? Regarding central London and driving then most people I know who live zones 1 and 2 use car clubs as owning a car is too much hassle. Walking is often the most efficient way of getting around the very central bits of London. The 'City of London' has it's very own police force with distinctive cars.

Chad - the 'good service operating on all lines' is a ploy to fool Visitors to London all is running efficiently!

m.youtube.com/watch?v=P9oJdGaC-wA

Hoping the link works this was Maureen Lipmans explanation from 1990

Soover is right. Anything within a London borough is London. I live in an outer London borough. I pay my council tax to a London local authority. That is London. If you go on a fairly short 10 min drive from here you will get into Hertfordshire which is not London but inside the M25.

No it isn't

Sutton is a London Borough Sutton isn't in London and the same goes for Bromley

(As many have said) Penge is in the LB of Bromley as well as the London parliamentary constituency of Lewisham & Penge - it's definitely London!

Sutton is in London! It's a London borough! It's just that London is really, really big. The postcodes are OLD, I'm sure if Royal Mail had had the resource they would would have changed them when the boundaries moved, but it was easier for them to just carry over.

Pretty clear

Sutton, London - no such address

Sutton, Surrey is still recognised as an address (and certainly properties are sold as that)

The same with Bromley/Kent

www.bobulous.org.uk/misc/Sutton.html

Interesting read about the history of Sutton, London.

I consider myself a Londoner. I live in a London borough, but an outer one. I am not on the tube network nor do I have a London postcode but we are Oyster zone 5 and it is 20 mins on the train to London Bridge. My eleven year old gets an Oyster Zip card which is a massive help with school journeys. It is quicker for me to get into work than some more central London colleagues down to transport links and geography. Aeons ago we came under the Orpington Urban District Council which was part of Kent but in the 50s and 60s I believe there were major boundary shifts so it isn't exactly a new thing. The postcodes and address haven't caught up, my address still says Kent but I have to drive ten minutes before I get to the welcome to Kent signs.

Sutton, London - no such address
I know! That's why I said that Royal Mail had carried over the old addresses from before the boundary changes. It's just an odd Royal Mail thing though, it doesn't change where the houses are physically placed. I don't know why this subject gets me so angry but it does in RL too

Not just Royal Mail

property listings

And adding London would mostly add value

Love the 1990 Inner/Outer vs Inner City / Greater London snobbishness.

I agree with it that for the areas that are debateable there will always be some people who want to think of it as London and some who want to think of it as Surrey/Kent/etc.

Enthusiasm, why are you so against acknowledging that the boundaries changed and certain places that used to be parts of Kent, Surrey etc simply no longer are? Royal main don't use counties in their addresses any more as has been explained.

This thread has been really interesting for me. Its good to learn new things and expand your knowledge. Even if it means that what you believed to be true is unfortunately not.

Wrt the estate agents etc. I've seen many "creative" descriptions for houses. Sometimes ea's are known to exaggerate the circumstances a little to appeal to their target demographic. My IL's would much rather move to a home in "Leafy Surrey" than "Vibrant London".

My property deeds ...

Even estate agents wouldn't advertise much of Sutton as leafy but if they could use London they certianly would as it would add value

It's just not recognised some official offices still use Kent/Surrey

Maybe in another 50 years

enthusiasm how ridiculous, rejecting official boundary changes but saying what estate agents say is the best guide to where a place is. I'm sure we all have experience of estate agents stretching boundaries to suit. The amount of times I see Cricklewood as north west hampstead for example!

I said my property deeds do not list London

I can not advertise my flat when renting or selling as in London because the address would not be recognised as London

I wish it was