would you leave your partner if they didn't see your DSC?

[mendimoo]

DP has a ten year old DD from his previous marriage. I have DS (7) and we have (almost) 2 year old DD together. We met when I was pregnant with DS and we had DSD 80% of the time, with me caring for DSD while he worked very frequently. DPs ex stopped contact for a year when DSD was 6. DSD was amazing when contact was reinstated and we all got along fabulously again. Then when she was 8 her mum stopped contact again and this time DP went to court and had it reinstated. Again, DSD was very happy to be seeing us again. Her mum has openly admitted she's jealous when DSD goes back talking about being happy here and the contact stoppage was for very minor reasons - like not being able to watch DSD in her Christmas concert because DP was in hospital.

Fifteen months ago, DPs ex stopped contact again. She was angry because her and DSD had fallen out and DSD said she preferred it here. DPs ex said if he sought contact via court she'd fabricate allegations against him. DP felt dejected and resigned himself to having no power and not seeing DSD until she was old enough to be able to manage it herself.

Yesterday, DP received a message saying: "Hello daddy, it's DSD. I'd really like to see you, can you come and pick me up soon?" We don't know if it's really from DSD or his ex but I think either way it's a way of getting to see DSD again and that he should jump at the chance. He, however, has no intention of replying and says it's just his ex playing games. I keep imagining poor DSD sitting waiting for a reply, wondering why we don't want to see her etc and feel heartbroken for her. Aibu to think I can't be with someone that wouldn't do everything in their power to see their child? I can't believe he'd actually wait another 4/5 years rather than have a stressful time now.

You ARE the best parent EVER headinhands. Everyone else is crap.

Straw man.

what have I done about not being able to see my dc today' wether it be mobilising awareness of the wider issue/writing to MP's etc.

Whose to say that the dads who you disapprove of - the ones who do not repeatedly take on their Ex's in court - don't do that?

My DH has been working with schools - he has secured changes to school policies and heightened awareness at several schools in the local area, ensuring that estranged parents in the same situation as his own are kept in the loop and has the opportunity to share their successes in some way. He volunteers for a local charity that supports Separated Parents (and which delivers the CAFCASS separated parenting programme).

DH contributed to the consultation that led to the changes in Family Court procedures and orders a few years ago - he was invited to meet Maria Miller MP, who was the Minister for Families at the time, and shared his experience with her.

He's not forgotten his DCs - never a day goes by when he doesn't think of them, but like the OPsDP he went through a whole grieving process to come to terms with the fact that he's prevented from being the dad he wants to be. And, at times, deciding whether to continue challenging his ex directly, or leaving his DCs to a more stable and settled life, has been very, very hard.

Later, if necessary I would be able to show my dc a record of that I was doing and also copies of letters/gifts sent. I would be able to show them that I didn't give up. That I couldn't.

Why would it "be necessary"? If your DC has grown up to be a happy and successful adult, then proving to them that you "didn't give up" is about you, not about them. If they ask, then of course, you can tell them, but hoarding "proof" in an attempt to prove a point, is an attempt to appease your own conscience. A DC who requires "proof" is not ready to reunite as they do not trust the person.
What is interesting is that most DCs don't "need" proof. They know only too well what happened.

headinhands
I couldn't lay my head down on my pillow at night without thinking 'what have I done about not being able to see my dc today'

I have noticed that (with a few exceptions) everything that you have posted is about what you want, what is best for you, what helps you sleep at night.
You very rarely put forward what is best for the child, what the child wants, what the child needs.

You need to alter your thinking to what is best for the child not what is best for you.

Why would it "be necessary"?

If they were asking why I didn't see them during certain times in their childhood. That's why I added the necessary. And it wouldn't be about me or for me. It would be about their sense of worth and value to their parent. Which brings me back to my whole stance.

What is interesting is that most DCs don't "need" proof. They know only too well what happened.

Maybe they don't. But if they did I would be able to demonstrate that I wanted to see them. Again I can only talk for me and what I would do. Naive or not, I remain to have my thoughts suitably challenged on the matter.

You need to alter your thinking to what is best for the child not what is best for you.

As I will when provided with sufficient reasoning.

headinhands

The children would know why it was necessary because they would have gone through court, cafcass, canhms etc.

we are not talking about "feckless fathers" that just disappear, we are talking about fathers that have fought for their children and seeing the "distress and damage" that is being done have decided to put the children above their wants and needs and let them go until such a time as the child comes back to them.

headinhands

Which you will never accept as you "cannot imagine" such a possibility.

head - I'm really struggling to understand WHY you're not reading the thread.

The OP has made it clear. Her DHs DD was subject to court action. The D. knows that her mother blocked contact as she was subject to a court application challenging it. She won't need to ask her dad "why" he didn't see her. It's not like he's disappeared without trace. CAFCASS would have told her that her dad wanted to see her.

You comments refer to a completely different situation. I'm sorry if you have been hurt by a parent, or your DCs have been abandoned by the man you chose as their father. But that is not the situation the OP described.

You say you are commenting on "what you would do", yet you are inventing a new scenario in which the dad has not tried. You are not commenting on the situation the OP described in her original thread in which there have been multiple court hearings.

It's actually quite rude to rewrite the content of someone's thread for them

it wouldn't be about me or for me. It would be about their sense of worth and value to their parent. Which brings me back to my whole stance

By "proving" their worth and value to you, by showing them the paperwork, you rob them of the benefit of the doubt they will have given their mum all that time.

Can you imagine, just for a moment, what it must be like to hear your mother, the person you trust and love, to lie repeatedly about your father to professionals in order to prevent you from seeing him? To hear her abuse him, rave about him, berate him to you and anyone who will listen, because he doesn't do what she wants him too and leave you alone?

Children find ways to rationalise that into adulthood. It's usually too hard for them to believe that their primary carer could be so selfish and nasty. Check out the Stately Homes thread - there's plenty of evidence that this is what happens.

They may "know" rationally, deep down, what happened, but in many cases, they avoid talking about it and don't examine it, seeking explanations from their dad and others that they hear in a way that doesn't demonise their mum.

Show them the paperwork, and you are stealing their whole reality about one of their parents from them, in order to assure them of their worth and value to the other.

Again it would be if they required explanation for my absence. And it would just be proof of letters i'd sent. It wouldn't be a 'oh and then your mum did this/did that'. It wouldn't be a character assassination, I'd just be showing my dc that they were part of my life even while I couldn't see them. And no I won't lie to an adult child. How insulting.

You think the stately homes thread is some proof that parents shouldn't provide evidence that they loved and missed them? Not following your logic there at all.

I meant lying to an adult child is insulting. Not that I was insulted.

And it would just be proof of letters i'd sent.

head you're backtracking. A few posts ago, you were judging and berating any parent who was not seeking to throw the full weight of the law behind their fight for their DCs right to contact with them irrespective of the consequences.

Now you're saying you'd just make sure your adult DCs know about letters you'd written to them? What about all the applications to court? All the legal bundles? All the social services and police reports? Those things that you said a truly committee parent would be willing to do? Why wouldn't you show a child those, as evidence that they were loved and valued?

There's a chasm of difference between a father who walks away and never contacts their DCs again at the first sign of resistance from their ex, and one who, after multiple court hearings, decides not to pursue further court action despite still being blocked from seeing their DCs.

You were judgmental and rude about the latter - yet are now referring to the actions of the former.

My reference to the stately homes thread was as evidence that many adult children continue to rationalise and justify their abusive parents behaviour to protect themselves from the horrific truth of a parent who abused them, and hurt others, in order to meet that parents own needs.

I hope you are still "genuinely interested" and not just stirring this thread up again - and yes, I'm still on bedrest, so happy to be distracted by this!

to contact with them irrespective of the consequences

I meant letters that I'd sent to them etc if I had been unable to secure access. And no, I would not yield to machinations from the RP. If they are that emotionally immature there is MORE compunction to have a relationship, not less because that child needs more role models showing them how to be an adult, not less.

All the social services and police reports

No I don't think so because my aim is to show the child they were valued so it would only need to be evidence of my sending letters to them if somehow I hadn't been granted access. My aim isn't to denigrate the RP.

after multiple court hearings, decides not to pursue further court action despite still being blocked from seeing their DCs.

Is the child present in court then the parents are discussing the case with the judge?

I still couldn't give up. I couldn't let my child down in light of a spiteful ex. My child would need an non spiteful parent to show them how to be a parent themselves when relationships don't work.

Is the child present in court then the parents are discussing the case with the judge?

Head, you asked this question upthread, and myself and other posters explained how a DC is involved in family court hearings.

Why ask the same questions repeatedly?
Are you expecting different answers?

We're not lying - these are our experiences of family court and consistent with the infomation published by CAFCASS who encourage parents to avoid court action if they can.

If they are that emotionally immature there is MORE compunction to have a relationship, not less because that child needs more role models showing them how to be an adult, not less.

I agree, but how can repeated and ineffective court involvement secure that?

Fighting in court and securing access are two very, very different things.

headinhands
"Again it would be if they required explanation for my absence. And it would just be proof of letters i'd sent. It wouldn't be a 'oh and then your mum did this/did that'. It wouldn't be a character assassination, I'd just be showing my dc that they were part of my life even while I couldn't see them. And no I won't lie to an adult child. How insulting."

But if you are showing them the letters etc. you are undermining their view of how they were brought up.

My stbexh is insistent that he is a loving and involved father that is being kept from his children and that i am poisoning them against him. His family trot out the same excuses.

The numerous police and social services reports following his domestic violence together with the specialist counselling my dd has would prove otherwise. It's always excuses and never any responsibility taken. One phone call is 3 months is not a loving parent in my book.

Since I've found myself in the position very unexpectedly - long marriage, middle class etc...not that it matters at all but simply painting a picture. I've been absolutely staggered by the amount of women in similar situations. It beggars belief.
There is the stereo type of the deadbeat dad for a reason. I'm not for one moment saying all NRPs are feckless in this type of scenario but you only have to look at the statistics re outstanding child support and the male/female lone parent divide to see that excuses for the most part tend to wear thin.

Personally I would never ever give up.

Careforadrink

You are confusing the OP's position for yours and bringing a totally separate issue.

Careforadrink

I seem to recall that your position on how much time your STBexh should get with the children is EoW and one night in the week, so if he wants more you would be preventing that and you would be being obstructive.

I would show them evidence of letters I had sent them should they want to explain why I hadn't been around to show I had wanted to be in their life and missed them

I wouldn't need to even mention the other parent, just demonstrate I wanted to be in their life and for whatever reason it didn't happen but that i could show they were a daily part of my life and I had never accepted the situation.