would you leave your partner if they didn't see your DSC?

[mendimoo]

DP has a ten year old DD from his previous marriage. I have DS (7) and we have (almost) 2 year old DD together. We met when I was pregnant with DS and we had DSD 80% of the time, with me caring for DSD while he worked very frequently. DPs ex stopped contact for a year when DSD was 6. DSD was amazing when contact was reinstated and we all got along fabulously again. Then when she was 8 her mum stopped contact again and this time DP went to court and had it reinstated. Again, DSD was very happy to be seeing us again. Her mum has openly admitted she's jealous when DSD goes back talking about being happy here and the contact stoppage was for very minor reasons - like not being able to watch DSD in her Christmas concert because DP was in hospital.

Fifteen months ago, DPs ex stopped contact again. She was angry because her and DSD had fallen out and DSD said she preferred it here. DPs ex said if he sought contact via court she'd fabricate allegations against him. DP felt dejected and resigned himself to having no power and not seeing DSD until she was old enough to be able to manage it herself.

Yesterday, DP received a message saying: "Hello daddy, it's DSD. I'd really like to see you, can you come and pick me up soon?" We don't know if it's really from DSD or his ex but I think either way it's a way of getting to see DSD again and that he should jump at the chance. He, however, has no intention of replying and says it's just his ex playing games. I keep imagining poor DSD sitting waiting for a reply, wondering why we don't want to see her etc and feel heartbroken for her. Aibu to think I can't be with someone that wouldn't do everything in their power to see their child? I can't believe he'd actually wait another 4/5 years rather than have a stressful time now.

If I had a penny for the times mens say ex won't let me see dd

And then you ask whT they have actually done about it it's usually not very much

And as for allegations well my fucking ex has tried the lot he tells people that I am asscusing him of being a criminal lol

He was in jail for 2 frigging years were the hell dose eveyone think he was if his wife wants to belive he was working abroad good for her she will have a shock if she even gets to see his dbs form

Goingtobeawesome I think there are different ways of standing up to bullies, and were I the dp, I would want to win the war and not the battle. If you look at he posts from Cakes and Time, they illustrate my point perfectly. There is a long game to be played here, and we have insufficient information from the OP about what effect any allegations could have on the professional standing of her dp, and if she is willing to put herself and her kids through the mill if the allegations were made. It's not pretty when it happens.

Whilst I do think he should send some sort of response along the lines of those suggested above. I also think that people are being a bit harsh on the DP. He may well be incredibly hurt by his ex's behaviour and dread the impact on his DD and himself of another spell of contact that the ex arbitarily withdraws.

please just because your ex is a dick doesn't mean all men are.
Women are as well - and some women do withhold contact, make false allegations and abuse their DCs.
I don't understand how anyone can defend that.

He may well be incredibly hurt by his ex's behaviour and dread the impact on his DD and himself of another spell of contact that the ex arbitarily withdraws

Yes, he may be, but his DD is getting older each time the contact starts and stops and wont be so tolerant of being told a load of bollocks by her mother when she can see with her own eyes what the truth is.

This is why it is important that OPs DH keeps in touch as best he can to avoid having to disprove the lie that she will be told about her dad not being interested.

DD is getting older each time the contact starts and stops and wont be so tolerant of being told a load of bollocks by her mother when she can see with her own eyes what the truth is.

That can be very dangerous for a DC. It was when my DHs DD started questioning her mum that the physical violence started. And, due to her age, SocServ did not consider her to need intervention as she could leave her mums house and call for help when her mum hit her

:( Time.

Why are people (men and women) so fucking horrible?

Time I completely understand what you're saying about the allegations and I agree with you - I know of many circumstances where the woman is a dick and not the bloke. I'm just saying that I was personally really glad that my dad chose to fight it out anyway (and I know the impact it can have, he was in a position where it affected his work). Post the court case me and him had some tough years financially due to the implications from court costs but it's now 13 years later, and although I now get on with both parents I will always be exceptionally close to my dad. I'm not sure it would be the same if he'd given up. I couldn't stay with someone who didn't do the same but as I said in my first post I know that's a high bar and it's a personal thing influenced by how I grew up.

I'm not saying the men aren't in an impossible position and I'm in two minds about it. As in cases like this I can completely see why the men stop because it seems like they're fighting a thankless battle. But it is so easy for an adult to see that, and so difficult for a child to see it. Unless of course they become aware of the truth of the situation and that isn't a good thing either what with all the nastiness involved.

When me and my ex partner split, there was a really nasty couple of years and he took me to court and tried to lie about a number of things - my point was that because I knew what he was like I would only communicate with him in writing. I took all these print outs with me and tbey completely disregarded all the bickering between us and just made a judgment that they felt was best for our son.

If OP's other half only communicated with the ex wife in a method by which he had it in writing (text/email) and said he wanted to find a way to reinstate access and then she went on to threaten him with false allegations that would help if it came to court again.

I'm sorry you've had such a horrible time with your DSS - as I've said, there's no easy answer and the system is very skewed against men

False allegations can be devastating though.

20 years ago one was made in dh's family. It was quickly disproven and everyone managed to get on with their lives.

But - when I first heard about it (Dh and I got together not long after and he told me) there was a small voice in my head going "but what if she was telling the truth" and "being abused does make people very messed up".

I haven't done anything about this. Dh and I don't talk about it. I am very nice to the "accused". I believe he was innocent.

But I would never leave my children alone with him. Not even for one minute. I believe in his innocence but I still won't. It is a tiny risk but not one I am willing to take.

Being afraid of his exes threats despite you having witnessed those threats and the daughter being old enough to tell the court that her mother is playing games - that does seem rather cowardly. Especially since his daughter is unhappy with her mother and would rather be with him ... which, if her mother is truly so bad, is completely understandable.

And not even responding to a message that could be from his daughter ... I get why you feel you don't want to be in a relationship with him. Now, he knows his daughter better, if she never calls him "daddy" or there's some other hint that the message is wrong, that's different, but even then, he should try to go to court as he knows his daughter would rather live with him.

the daughter being old enough to tell the court that her mother is playing games

It really isn't that simple. expecting a DC to admit to themselves that their primary carer (and the person they are emotionally and physically dependent on) is lying in order to hurt someone else the DC loves is a big ask - assuming they'll tell complete strangers in a whole other issue.

And, in my experience, facts are often less important to a court than a DCs perception. For instance, DH provided the court with evidence that contradicted his exs assertion about how long we'd been living together (she said it was too soon for DSS to spend time in our home) - but CAFCASS said that his DSs perception was in line with his mums thinking so that was what the court accepted!

No, I wouldn't automatically leave him, in fact I didn't.

I met my OH when his DS was a baby, he was paying significant maintenance but not being allowed contact. We got together. He fought, and was granted it.
We never missed a day and loved every single time.

One day we were returning from a day out, and got stuck on the motorway in a coach on the way back.
DsS's DM called the police and said we had abducted her child. We were both detained.

For 6months OH attended supervised access visits, feeling like a criminal, until we were graciously allowed to see him once a month.
These then stopped.

His DM then decided to throw the bombshell, "He's not your Son, so you can't see him again"
Funnily enough, she still wanted the maintenance for not-his-child while we went down the paternity testing route.
He was of course, his Son.

We fought again. No funding, so had to pay ourselves, along with the hefty maintenance that was of course still demanded.

Then the police came to arrest OH for a Hate Crime, which was a vile racist and homophobic text from an unknown number, signed off with his name because you'd leave your name sending something like that?

No contact again for 5 months.

A year of consistent and happy contact once a week and every weekend. It was brilliant.

Then his DM met her now Husband and decided we weren't needed in his life. They moved 3 hours away from us, changed numbers and never gave their address.

Courts are geared to women. And sadly, some women are vengeful, nasty, evil bitches spawned from hell.

I have seen first hand what this has done to my OH.
He's broken his heart more times than I care to think about now, been signed off work ill and losing hair, pulled from our bed and arrested, then let go, but she's never had to answer to her false allegations.
I've had calls made to my employer stating I'm on drugs, we've had SS on our door regarding our 3 children, calls to our childrens school, saying that the children didn't have beds to sleep in and we got to the point where we physically and mentally couldn't take any more.

So she won. We gave up. She won.

11 and a half years of pain, investigations, £1000s of pounds in court costs, solicitors fees, arrests and sitting in a cell while totally clueless as to what he has done (nothing).

We gave up, as we just couldn't fight anymore. So if anyone judges us on that, please feel free.
I sleep soundly at night knowing we did EVERYTHING we could.
We have run out of money now anyway.

DsS knows that our door is open to him any hour of the day or night, all he has to do is call or just come here and he will be loved and welcomed however long it takes. He knows this.
But it is up to him now, we haven't got the strength to carry on fighting his mother. She is fucking twisted and evil.

Feel free to judge. I empathise with your DH, OP.

Wow, sorry for the massive message!

I have been in, or am in a situation that is similar. In brief, parents split, mum stopped contact, dad tried and then gave up when he thought he wasn't getting anywhere. A year later mum made contact and said kids want to see their dad. He did not respond.

It was at this point that I met him and proceeded to tell him how selfish he was and that I could not have a relationship with someone who chooses to remain out of their children's lives. He eventually replied to ex and fortnightly visits were established.

I then moved on to telling him that fortnightly visits were not enough and he should at least be ringing the kids every other night just for a general chat etc. I really used to go in. I just couldn't understand how someone could live like this.

One day instead of my usual attack, I spoke calmly and questioned him sensibly. What the issue appears to be is that he's scared. Scared that the children will be taken away again and that he will not cope with the loss. Scared that the children will get mixed messages.

I still ultimately feel that parents have to put their feelings aside for the benefit of their children but understanding the drivers for what I always thought was selfish inaction, has helped me to support him and look at the situation from a different perspective.

In a way it is still a bit of a barrier between us, because I expect more and quicker, but he is making progress.

Deal breaker for me.

There are no excuses. You always fight for your kids

Not judging, Violet - but if your DH received a text from his DS, like the OP's DH has from his DD, what would he do? Ignore it? Or do something?

Sounds like an awful situation op. It wouldn't automatically mean I would leave your husband though as it would mean your other child is left with a part time father too. Not ideal. It would take a lot of thinking through.

To the person who suggested passing notes through school. Please don't do this. I've been put in this awkward situation as a teacher and it's really not fair or safe for the child. As a teacher, I don't know whether the Dad is abusive or unsafe. Ditto for the Mum. We could be starting a contact situation through a letter that could lead to a child being in an awful situation. We only have the OP's word and know nothing except for words on a screen.

absolute school was brilliant for DH. It was all done properly through the safeguarding officer though - not just via a class teacher. It can help a great deal for the estranged parent to engage with the school, especially if the school have concerns that the resident parent can't explain - for instance my DHsDS wrote some things that concerned them but realised why then DH explained he hadnt been in direct contact for months.

Even the safeguarding officer has no idea what goes on in either family home. They are in no position to judge if it's sensible for that person to have contact. That is why it should always go through a court.

Let's put it this way. Say you were divorces and your ex was a dangerous person. They were smooth and put on a face for the school. The school liked them and passed on letters to your child. Is that safe? The school can't judge the situation. They don't go in family homes very often.

Let's put it this way. Say you were divorces and your ex was a dangerous person. They were smooth and put on a face for the school. The school liked them and passed on letters to your child. Is that safe?

Unless the dangerous parent is prohibited from contact with the child the school cannot prevent them from removing the child from school. A school local to me was recently subject to civil court action by a father whose ex had told the school not to communicate with him. They acted on her say so.

There is very clear direction from the DfE as to how schools should engage with separated parents and that includes the assumption that they are equal unless a court deems otherwise.

I accept that note passing can be inflammatory but in my DHs case, the school facilitated direct contact between father and son - and told DHs ex they had done so.

He's more than likely bloody hurt at losing his daughter more than once. And as soon as the pain isn't quite so raw, his ex stops being so vindictive and she's allowed back again. It can't be easy for him.

And let's face it, allegations made against any man are costly to fight and the stink never really goes.

Women like his ex make my blood boil. I feel sorry for him and his daughter.

A school does need to remain completely objective. There is no place to take sides unless a court has decided a certain action. We aren't social workers, judges or any such thing. We are there to teach and I do object to being brought into family politics that we can't do anything about as there is no court order in place. Keep schools out of it. I've been put in many awkward situations including being told by a mum that a dad wasn't allowed to collect (no court order). Dad turned up and full on screaming match ensued. I was blamed for allowing Dad onto the playground. The school playground was open for all parents and no court order was in place so there was nothing I could say to stop dad being there.

You were not responsible for their conduct.
But, you are responsible for the welfare of DCs while they are with you.
Wouldn't you want to know if a DC in your class had seen their dad thrown out of the house over the weekend? Or be made aware that when they got home last night, all the furniture in the house had been taken by one parent?

You have to engage with both parents in order to do your best for the DC.
And in my DHs DS case, the school believed it was in his best interests to speak to his Dad, so they organised that.

Engage with both parents. Yes! Not pass messages to a child. That's the point I'm trying to get across. It's not up to me say whether it's in a child's best interest for them to speak with their Dad. How do I know that parent isn't dangerous? Yes I'd want to know what is going on as it's important to know the child's background but I will not be a go between when I can never 100% say that's safe. My school would agree. It would be a safeguarding concern for me if a school facilitated access with no more info than what a parent is telling them. People aren't always truthful, particularly when relationships have failed.

Fair enough absolute Obviously, what my DHs DS said carried enough weight for the school to intervene. While he was known to SocServ and school did have a file of their own, they obviously weren't party to everything and has to judge based on their knowledge of a 10 year old.