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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think this is sexual harassment not "an equal opportunities issue"?

414 replies

SwissWank · 22/07/2016 13:58

If I am expecting a vulva and in a private room am met with a penis...

I don't have to touch your penis, surely?

www.buzzfeed.com/lanesainty/trans-woman-brazilian-wax?utm_term=.wn9yL7dKK#.aoLOxVqZZ

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itsbetterthanabox · 27/07/2016 10:14

Some can self lubricate a bit. If in the surgery they use part of the bowel which is mucosal. There's different methods but some neo vaginas done this way do self lubricate.

itsbetterthanabox · 27/07/2016 10:17

Italiangreyhound
There's is a male Brazilian wax treatment.
It removes all hair from the area and can leave it strip. It would be done for the same reason a woman would have it done.
Also it would remove and hair poling outside knickers, although a normal bikini wax would too. I'm assuming Karen shaves or waxes her legs so wants to be smooth all over.

TentPegsAndWetWipes · 27/07/2016 12:30

Saying that you are transgender when booking the appointment isn't actually saying anything about your sex organs at all. Imo, the terms 'transgender woman' and 'transgender man' are the wrong way around and confusing. If someone says "I am a woman" then it suggests they are biologically female, if they say "I am transgender" you would imagine that they have adopted gendered appearances and behaviour culturally associated with the opposite biological sex. So to avoid confusion Karen should have said "I am male, but transgendered", so that the beauticians could have made a judgement call about a male-bodied person who adopts cultural female gender norms. Although in the article it doesn't mention whether Karen referred to himself as a woman or a man, to say you are 'transgendered' it is possible you could be a biological female (but living 'as a man') so the staff could have reasonably expected vulva.

With regard to males in beauty salons as a rule, I find it really violating as a customer. Men sitting around or even hearing male voices when you are there for hair removal, etc it is so intrusive- such an affront - I never go back. Once I called to find out how much a leg wax was and a bloke answered the phone, asking me if I want a half-leg, full-leg, bikini wax or brazillian. I ended the call - I don't want to tell some random bloke I don't even know such personal information about me. Men should not be in these places - even male partners in the waiting rooms, etc. I remember once being in a place where there was a teenage girl sheepishly walking up to the counter and the receptionist saying to her 'so you are here for the full-body ipl'. There was a male partner of another customer that looked up with curiosity and clocked her - obviously processing this information about her (possibly something she felt hugely ashamed about and didn't want people to know) while she withered with embarrassment and had to take a seat next to him. Men should be polite enough to stay out.

This Karen pisses me off. I thought the whole thing about gender dysphoria is about feeling you have the wrong sex body. Brazillian waxing is about removing hair to get more of your fanny on show. If Karen genuinely felt dysphoria about his cock and balls, etc, I don't think he would want treatments to put them more on show.

I think it is some fuck-up fetishised 'right of passage' he thinks he needs to go through to join us ladies in the lady club and he didn't care how it would affect the staff or customers at the beauticians to draw them into his role-play against their will.

NotYoda · 27/07/2016 12:41

TentPegs

I agree with your first paragraph, but

I think he needed to be more explicit about the fact he had male genitals.
I don't think you can expect anyone 9including a receptionist0 to draw the conclusion from what you say

TentPegsAndWetWipes · 27/07/2016 12:53

Yoda - I suppose that's the whole confusion isn't it? That 'man' or 'woman' now can interchangeably mean genitals that are male, female, castrated and reshaped male, sterilised and reshaped female.

A tiny minority of people are advantaged by this confusion - ie the people who identify as trans. The onus should be on this tiny minority to be very explicit and clear when necessary, eg going for a genital specific service like genital waxing, instead of feeling 'humiliated' when their hard-won confusion reaches its natural conclusion.

NotYoda · 27/07/2016 13:34

yes. Agree totally

I also think Karen meant this to happen as it has, as others have said

(like your name, BTW)

VioletVaccine · 27/07/2016 13:54

I think it would save a lot of misunderstanding if the terms Trans man and trans woman were reversed.

So a 'Trans Man' would be a man who is transitioning into a woman, and a 'Trans woman' would be a woman who is in the process of transitioning into a man.

If someone called up a beautician and said, "I'd like to have a Brazilian wax please, I'm just wondering if I can attend as I am a Trans man," it would be a lot easier to know whether the service is available.

Because until you are 'there', you're still transitioning, so isn't Karen infact a Trans (transitioning) man, not a Trans woman?

dizzyfucker · 27/07/2016 15:46

I think it would save a lot of confusion if people like Karen didn't beat about the bush with terms. The phone call could have gone like this "I'm a trans woman and I want a Brazilian wax" "ok we'll book you in" "I still have male genitals is that ok" "no sorry madam we can't cater for that" "ok thank you, goodbye".

The problem is Karen thinks her genitals are female, just different to other females.because Karen is a batshit fantasist who doesn't know the difference between her fantasies and reality. A bit like my 3 year old who identifies as a dog and was thrilled to bits when his grandfather, who is vet pretended to make him better.
But Karen's not 3!!!

VioletVaccine · 27/07/2016 15:56

I totally agree.
I'm quite certain that Karen set out to be offended.
She actively sought out a 'female only' salon, to take her male genitalia to.

A unisex beautician that offers male and female waxing was the obvious sensible choice, as you know that someone who's trained to wax both genitalia will definitely work here. Simple.

But oh no, Karen has been told that 'identifying' as female is enough. So what if she has a penis, she is still a woman, feels like a woman whatever that means, and don't dare oppress her by saying her penis isn't welcome in a female only salon.

ChatterNatterer · 27/07/2016 16:01

The conversation should have gone

'hi, do you wax cocks and balls?'
'no sorry we aren't trained for that'
'okay bye'

They didn't even need to mention what gender they think they are, or where they are in their 'transition/surgical/hormonal/emotional journey'

TentPegsAndWetWipes · 27/07/2016 16:16

(like your name, BTW) thanks NotYoda

Violet I think it would save a lot of misunderstanding if the terms Trans man and trans woman were reversed.
Yes - it would help everyone all around, since the terms would be grounded in scientifically testable reality, rather than in the obsessive fantasies of disordered minds, who (as you say Dizzy) don't know reality from their own fantasies.

I also agree that a female only salon was specifically chosen as a test - a win-win for Karen - if the staff at any point say that male genitals are male, they can be sued for compensation, if they play along with the charade for fear of offending Karen, then Karen gets outside validation of his delusion that his cock and balls are actually female, because he has had them waxed in a salon that only waxes female genitals.

BeyondBeyondBeyondBeyondBeyond · 27/07/2016 16:20

Chatter, I think of it like mentioning my wheelchair. I could well turn up and show off that something isn't accessible and get the media coverage etc. Or I could just bloody ask and not waste my time!

Do you have wheelchair access? No.
Do you wax male genitalia? No.

(I also like tentpegs name!)

FreshwaterSelkie · 27/07/2016 16:33

"didn't beat about the bush with terms"

Grin I see what you did there.

dizzyfucker · 27/07/2016 19:41
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