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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think this is sexual harassment not "an equal opportunities issue"?

414 replies

SwissWank · 22/07/2016 13:58

If I am expecting a vulva and in a private room am met with a penis...

I don't have to touch your penis, surely?

www.buzzfeed.com/lanesainty/trans-woman-brazilian-wax?utm_term=.wn9yL7dKK#.aoLOxVqZZ

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
dizzyfucker · 25/07/2016 17:38

I didn't know what cis-woman meant. I just assumed it was a new name for trans- woman. But am I right in thinking that it is a new definition for woman? If so I'm appalled. In history when new labels, definitions and categories start it never has and never will have a good outcome. This is especially true if those being labelled and re-catogrised are a weaker or marginalised group.

HermioneWeasley · 25/07/2016 18:23

dizzy you are quite right. Apparently the terms "woman" "biological woman" or "born woman" aren't acceptable so we have a label of "cis women" imposed.

Fuck off with that shit.

I'm currently playing them at their own game and identifying as an AFAB (assigned female at birth - an example of the trans cult appropriating language from intersex people. Unless you have completely ambiguous genitalia, your sex isn't "assigned" at birth, the fact of it is correctly noted) trans woman.

If TW are women, then women are TW and it's very TERFy and bigoted to say I'm not trans.

WeMustSurelyBeLearning · 25/07/2016 18:36

I've started to see trans women calling themselves biological and cis women now. Disagree? then you are transphobic. It's madness but I can see peak trans becoming mainstream very soon.

HermioneWeasley · 25/07/2016 19:02

Yes, because they want to render language meaningless because then we don't have any words to discuss the fact that women's inequality is rooted in our biology. If "woman" and "biology " become meaningless terms, we can't fight back

TimeforaNNChange · 25/07/2016 19:15

I can see peak trans becoming mainstream very soon.

I hope so.

If, as you say, TW are now appropriating the term "cis" then the motives of transactivists could not be more transparent, as it is not about their own identity, but that of others, that they are focused on.

First, they appropriate the term woman. Fine. (actually, it's not, but still, go with it). Those women to whom the woman applies reluctantly accept their rebranding to "cis-woman". But that term then excludes some women, who are not cis, so the definition of cis is changed to include them. And so it goes on.

The armchair psychologist in me is wondering whether the underlying motives are that transactivists are in pursuit of something that doesn't exist. They transitioned, and became trans, but that didn't give them what they were pursuing, so they insist that becoming a "woman" will satisfy them. But that hasn't satisfied them either, so now they are attempting to become "cis-women". Boy, are they in for a shock when they finally realise that this is as good as it gets! Whatever utopia they think womanhood will bring, it is still alluding them, because, as any woman could tell them, "being a woman ain't all that good"!

If this wasn't related to gender/sex, but instead applied to geographical locations, it would be considered an "occupation".
control by a certain ruling power (transwomen) over a territory (women) which is not under the formal sovereignty of that entity (transwomen), without the volition of the actual sovereign (women).

Lorelei76 · 25/07/2016 22:24

I'm sorry to be thick but I'm not clear what "peak trans becoming mainstream" means?

PinkyofPie · 25/07/2016 22:46

Lorelei - peak trans is the moment you realise the the transactivist agenda is effectively dangerous and bullshit. For me it was the cotton ceiling concept. Hopefully these issues will be in the mainstream soon and most people will feel like 'we' feel

WeMustSurelyBeLearning · 25/07/2016 22:49

the following definition is the top result for peak trans on Google. Sums it up nicely

"Peak Trans is the moment when someone realizes that all is not right in the trans community and begins to question their support for trans politics."

What I meant by mainstream peak trans is that more and more people will say enough is enough when they read stories like this one. Biology is real and trying to claim that a penis is a female organ or that a trans woman is biologically female is a step too far for lots of people.

minatiae · 25/07/2016 22:59

This came up at work today (not this thread, but gender). So some people apparently don't go for the op because they fluctuate between feeling male and feeling female. They actually, according to a colleague, want the distinction between man and woman removed from society because they don't believe those distinctions are real.

What I don't understand then, is if people want to have no accepted difference between male and female and argue that they're the same thing, why do they associate with one gender or another at different times? Why do they not associate as having no gender? If they believe gender doesn't exist, how can they feel like they belong to one gender one day and another the next? It seems to be a contradiction.

Lorelei76 · 26/07/2016 00:00

Thanks for the explanations
I was confused because I thought it might mean that we were about to hit peak of people wanting to be trans
Again I might be totally wrong but I wonder how many people even know this is going on

dizzyfucker · 26/07/2016 03:31

Thank fuck I don't live in a country where this is an issue. Where to use a woman's space you have to be a biological female. And refreshingly that's not discriminating against anyone. That if you want to wear a dress and makeup but you have a penis then that's no problem. I know men that work in the courthouse who wear mascara, lipstick, a shirt and a tie. I know people who bible read in church in a dress but everyone knows they have a penis. No one gives a fuck, they are who they are. Which is how it should be. Women have had the freedom to act like and dress like men for decades without needing to piss in urinals and demand prostate exams. Isn't it time people started accepting that men can be men even if they wear a dress and makeup? Why this need to define men as women. Why can't these men just be accepted as men?

Lorelei76 · 26/07/2016 04:34

Dizzy, but we all know men like that. That's not a problem.
The problem is a group wanting to be treated as a woman and have access to women's spaces.

EmpressOfTheVaginaDentata · 26/07/2016 06:31

I've re-watched the interview, Jack, although I can see the conversation's moved on quite a bit since last night.

I still see you saying that transwomen are women & should have access to women's spaces, and I still don't hear anything about gender being a load of crap.

HermioneWeasley · 26/07/2016 06:32

lorelei few people know this is going on - it's not discussed in mainstream media. I have a policy of discussing it with everyone to raise awareness. Nobody so far has bought the "female penis" argument or believes that men should have access to rape crisis centres

EmpressOfTheVaginaDentata · 26/07/2016 08:06

Bugger, wrong thread, sorry.

dizzyfucker · 26/07/2016 08:32

Just had a little google and most rape crisis centres offer services to transgender women and non-binary gender, but not gay and straight men. Now I would 100% understand if it states that those people must post-op or biological women but none of the ones I looked at stated this. The alternative services offered to men would be better for women and non-binary people with penises and while the rest of the world might assume that those with a penis would not try to access services for women, this article in the OP shows that this is not actually the case. It's worrying that those with a penis can access vulnerable women's services just because they identify as a woman.

HermioneWeasley · 26/07/2016 14:50

Fuck dizzy it's worrying that it's already the case. Do they state they allow TW to access their services explicitly?

Imagine going to use that service and meeting someone obviously male

BeyondBeyondBeyondBeyondBeyond · 26/07/2016 14:55

I've said before, transwomen (specifically post op) need their own rape facilities, not because of anything to do with women but because they will surely need to deal with a plastic surgeon re any damage! Women's facilities aren't able to do this!

dizzyfucker · 26/07/2016 15:28

Yes HermioneWeasley they do specifically state that they are open for transgender women . Now before this thread I would assume that would mean post-op. But that's not stated. I agree that post-op women would need additional expert help but initially they should have access the crisis centre for psychological services and immediate medical attention. While the centre may assume they are open to non-binary biological women and post-op transgender women, those accessing the services may not.

JaWellNoFine · 26/07/2016 23:16

Until such time as someone defines woman in such a way that it includes every single woman on earth without actually mentioning their chromosomes, genitals, breasts or reproductive organs there is no definition of the socially constructed concept if 'woman'. So all we have is biological fact which involves chromosomes and vaginas .

If you are unable to define something how can you accept or reject it. How can you claim to feel like something you cannot even define. What does being a woman entail? Maybe the trans community can let us woman know how we are supposed to behave and feel. That would be great Confused More men telling us what to do and diminishing the rights of woman because their male privilege gives them that right.

It is totally illogical.

How can any male say they feel like a woman if even females cannot say this.

Call yourself anything you like. Really, very few people care. But Karen, has a penis and cannot have a Brazilian. Karen knows this. Karen did this for exposure Grin and compensation. Karen is not a very nice person whatever she calls herself.

Italiangreyhound · 26/07/2016 23:35

I wonder why Karen did want a Brazilian. I mean what is the purpose of one anyway. I think I know but indulge me, what's it all about?

HelenaDove · 26/07/2016 23:46

I hope this is ok to ask but post op how do they keep the vagina lubricated. Do trans women have to take medication to achieve this or use some sort of cream.

This post is NOT a piss take. I am genuinely wondering about it.

WeMustSurelyBeLearning · 27/07/2016 01:32

I'm not too sure. I know it has to be dilated regularly or it closes up. I presumed they just used lubricant when necessary. Its not a vagina so there is no way for it self lubricate is there?

HelenaDove · 27/07/2016 01:38

YY Learning. Thats what i was thinking too...........that it cant self lubricate.

HermioneWeasley · 27/07/2016 07:57

I think they have to use creams to stop it drying out, and presumably lube during sex. Dilators have to be used to stop what is essential,y a wound from healing over.