To not go back to this playgroup...

[Biscuitbrixit]

...after seeing a parent smack their 3yr old?

He was throwiing toys, she told him not to, he threw them again, she told him again, he threw them again, blah blah blah, went on for ages just remove him from situation ffs
She got all shouty & eventually, after about half an hour of him throwing toys and hurting kids she went over, picked him up by the arm, smacked his bum, yelled at him and sat him on a chair, then walked away, back to her friends. She's with a group of parents who tend to all sit together in a corner and let their kids roam free, no one really paying attention until someone gets hurt.

I was kind of sitting with my friend, thinking wtf!

A tap wouldn't shock anyone out of a situation, if I tapped DD she wouldn't take a blind bit of notice. You are hitting your child hard enough for them to take notice and stop. Stop minimising this. And you are clearly oblivious to how badly your parents behaved hitting their children with a shoe, when you were young enough to be wearing nappies. Jesus Christ. That's fucking appalling.

DD is also very well behaved. She's got there without me or DH deciding that hitting her should be a part of our parenting skill set.

I would never send her into any childcare situation where hitting a child was considered permissible. In fact, I would expect any childminder, nursery worker or teacher who hit a child to be sacked and not allowed to work with children again. I bet a lot of the hitters on this thread would agree, and not realise what hypocrites they were being.

I was hot as a child. I have zero respect for my parents that they did this under any circumstances whatsoever.

So his viewpoint will be skewed as he wil compare with the worst that humans can do.

I can get DD's attention (in the oven scenario you described) by putting urgency and some extra volume in my tone - DD, keep away from the oven, it's hot!! And I could physically remove her if she didn't listen. No need for your so-called tapping, which I notice, as always, that you initially described as smacking but then downgraded to tapping when challenged further. Seen that one do many times in this debate. I smack, oh no, I don't, it's a tap.

And your parents were violent. Stop excusing it and them.

Ofcourse childcarers aren't going to smack kids in their care, if they choose to discipline their own kids that's up to them!
You probably wouldn't even know who does!

I'm so sad at how many parents still smack their kids. I thought it was a dwindling, old fashioned practise, like teachers using the ruler and throwing the board rubber.

I could have cried reading 'a smack on a bottom in a nappy'; that's a baby you're hitting...

I think deep down smackers know they shouldn't be doing this to their children, and if you google time ins, or read the book 'How to Talk so Kids Will Listen' or similar, you could find a much more positive and less violent way to parent.

alas it sounds like you and your siblings are the perfect case in point for violence from parents not only failing to improve behaviour but also giving a violent example to children who then went on to treat each other violently too.

I am very glad to hear you have found a different way with your own children. A very positive breaking of the cycle!

It depends whether this mother's behaviour was typical of the group. There can often be one Mom with questionable parenting methods. I think Words can be as damaging to children as Smacking. Ive seen parents talking to their kids in a shocking way. If a parent barks horrible comments in a belittling or mmanipulative way, that can damage self-esteem. Ive been put off attending a group where there has been a loud nasty parent as I didn't want my kid to hear it. However, if its a big busy playgroup and that Mom is the exception, Id prob still go.

I have very nearly smacked my adoptive daughter in a playgroup.
I am not proud of it but she was still building attachment with me and was having a mad moment of throwing herself all over the floor and kicking, hitting and biting me.
This was all down to having no boundaries set in FC so when i came along and started setting those boundaries she resisted (and still does now and again).
I have had the stares from other mums basically saying 'sort out your feral child' but 90% of the time that mum doesn't know she has only been in my care for a few months and is testing me and still going through attachment.
One great resource I have found is the therapeutic parenting group on Facebook and Janet Lansbury's posts.
If any other mums struggle with their children - have a read of this. It has helped me loads to understand why she behaves the way she does and how most of the time I need to adjust my attitude not her behaviour.
www.janetlansbury.com/2012/07/the-discipline-question-no-one-can-answer/

Just read through this thread in more detail and lots of people are discussing whether its ok to smack.

I dont use smacking and look for other methods of discipline. Im always questioning what methods I use as I dont want to damage my kids, but they need discipline. Smacking is the lazy easy way to get kids to behave, because it stops them in their tracks. Using alternative methods is more challenging, but you've got to do it.

I was hit as a child and it verged on being too severe. On occasions it was severe. The problem is - its a fine line. How do you know how it feels to that child? Its caused me problems. Ive been in abusive relationships because I learned it was acceptable for me to be hit - the people who loved me did it, so it myst be ok. I stayed too long with men who used physical coercion. It means you feel fear when someone acts in a physically coersive way. I believe it made me more submissive and less assertive, and that can be exploited in the wrong hands. Also, as a parent you are a role model the message you're giving is that putting your hands on someone to get them to do something is ok. Behaviour is learned and copied.

When I lose my temper and feel like smacking or 'tapping', I remind myself that I dont want my daughter to learn its ok for her to be hit in certain situations.

I don't smack my dcs ( they bloody live on the time-out stairs though), School discourages violence etc and they still knock seven bells out of each other at every opportunity (hence the stairs...). Children can be violent little sods all on their own, without learning it from 'bad' parents. Just saying.

I never smack my children and nor do my friends. It would upset me too if I saw this. There are many other ways to parent your children, and yes I do judge someone who uses any form of violence (whether tapping / smacking / patting on the bottom or or however you want to dress it up) against a child. There's so much information and support out there nowadays for parents, there is really no excuse to use smacking whether as first/last resort or whatever.
Alasalas - I also seems to me that there was a cycle of violence in your childhood home.
The fact that are describing the number of fingers that you use to smack shows that you have normalised this behaviour. There are many other ways to get a child's attention.

I am no perfect parent, I have made mistakes, I have dealt with situations badly, but I am always thinking 'how can I do this better?'. I don't agree with letting kids run wild either, but there is a middle ground.

I was on a day out with the kids and saw a mum hit her baby on the hand because he ran off when she wanted to change his nappy. She was in a public place and was obviously trying to justify her behaviour because she said to him 'it's just when you run off you make me so cross'. Hmm so in effect a grown adult blaming her own lack of control on a 2 year old .....

To smack a child on the bum is not bad parenting particularly if the parent has tried to discipline the child verbally.

I was smacked and I'm glad as it taught me discipline!!

I can't actually believe what I am reading on this thread has anyone thought that the poor woman may of been having a seriously bad day and just couldn't take anymore!!
I know I've been there more than once I have 2 boys one 4 and one 3 on Saturday and oh my days can they be a handful some days!! And usually my only interaction with grown ups is at these groups, I'm not a total fan as they are so clicky and it's difficult to fit in when your shy and feel like everyone is judging your parenting skills because their children are perfect and never do anything wrong!! And especially when your kids have been chuntered about for doing things that kids do!! I am a parent who believes a smack on the bum or hand is sometimes the only next step in discipline because let's face it not all kids respond to being counted at or removed (having been kicked several times when trying that I rarely use that tactic)

So please don't judge the parent because they smacked their child would you rather they just sat there and did nothing and let their child carry on being naughty!!
I know I wouldn't.

Oh and I didn't say anything because I honestly could not think of the right words. I have been pondering since what I would do if I saw a child being smacked, obviously the parent is not breaking the law, but it's unfair on the child. However the majority of people react very badly to having their parenting criticised and so would it make the situation worse? I really don't know.

But what is smacking teaching a child? That their parent, their role model, has to resort to hitting to handle a situation. It does not give them a reason not to do it again. It does not teach them how to handle their emotions.
My son can be a real handful too and I do discipline him but I never ever smack. How could I then tell him not to hit his siblings?
I know we all lose it at times, I know kids aren't easy, but these are not acceptable reasons to hit a child.

I have a different memory of the past as the teachers never hit us at my school (in the 1970s) and my parents never smacked me. I did fight with my sisters sometimes, but it was verbal not physical.

Sorry Alasalas I missed that. Also my other post was in response to jessieb - cross posting, sorry...

This thread had been an eye-opener anyway, I obviously had an unusual upbringing as most other people seemed to have been smacked ad children.