to think mp's havent got a clue (Corbyn no confidence vote)

[teaandcake789]

So 2 MO's have submitted a no confidence motion in Corbyn and many others are thought to support it because he didn't campaign Remain hard enough.
I'm shocked and disgusted that the MP's think this is for the best and what our country wants. Corbyn most likely didn't campaign as hard has he could because he still had serious doubts over the EU. If anything I think he is the best person to lead this country into independence but he's going to be kicked out next week because the MP's think his face doesn't fit. They've been waiting 9 months to find any excuse to oust him really.
What's happening to our country today? I'm off to look at rightmove overseas.........

LadyRataxes yes, someone did. His name was Jeremy Corbyn.

"He needed to stand up and say that yes life was shit for the unskilled working class now but it wasn't caused by the EU and that there are problems with the EU but nothing compared to the problems without it."

That's exactly what he did say. His campaign was called Remain and Reform. There's a link to a video of him launching it in that Telegraph article I posted above.

Whether he didn't say it well enough or often enough, or whether it wasn't covered by the right-wing and anti-Corbyn media when he did, is a matter for argument. I personally would guess it's a bit of both.

However, he did say it, and he did believe it, I'm sure. His position, that he didn't think the EU was perfect but he wanted to stay in and reform it, was arguably a lot stronger and certainly more honest than the increasingly desperate, preachy scaremongering of Cameron and Osbourne - which didn't play very well at all, clearly.

But right now, Corbyn is a highly convenient whipping boy and this false narrative, scapegoating him for our exit from the EU, is gifting the right-wing media a way of not having to print any actual facts about the lies of the Leave campaign and Cameron's failures.

The Leave voters were all sold the dud of the century by Leave. Are we seriously going to fall for another one right after?

I'm not scapegoating him for our exit - what I'm saying is his inability to stop the exit and to motivate labour voters (or should be labour voters) to support labour is clear indication of his lack of leadership skills and ability to win an election (other than his own).
His performance was weak- if you are saying he did his best well his best wasn't good enough.
you can't just blame the Leave campaign and Cameron. 1) Labour was in undivided support of remain and should have been able to motivate its supporters 2) I don't think a referendum would have been called in a position where Labour was viewed as a serious threat - the Torys would have had more concerns about being divided.
Even before the resignations started the reaction from the labour leadership had been poor/underplayed

Corbyn's a chocolate teapot: a serial rebel who was disloyal to every previous Labour leader but outraged that anyone should be disloyal to him when he's achieved and done nothing to deserve loyalty. He's someone who sold himself on his principles but sabotaged his own party's campaign on the EU and wasn't honest with voters or his party about his own position. Far from being strong-armed by "Blairites" (? delusional!), he could at any point have decided to stand up and lead from the front on whatever position he chose.

Instead he hides behind Momentum activists who threaten and bully people in person and on social media.

Like it or not, if a leader can't command the confidence of his own MPs he has no chance winning an election.

And Corbyn, who made it clear that on the EU he tended to be on the side of those who voted to Leave but was told to back Remain as leader of the party whose position was Remain, is now being attacked for Not Thinking Right, or not being pro-Remain enough (although he never claimed to be pro-Remain).

This is my concern-even people supporting Corbyn aren't sure what he believes.
I'll vote labour regardless- its just its a bit lonely!

amicissimma - I know what you are saying but my concern is that there was nothing concrete in what Leave offered- no plan as to what the post EU world was to look like- no plan as to how to leave and no commitments for any changes (and any that were have been restricted)- so other than the generic "change" I'm not sure what people voted for- i don't see how anyone could have known.
I think the Remain campaign was equally poor with scare tactics about Leave but ultimately people voting remain had a clear idea as to what Remain was - it was the status quo -in my view this put a floor on what the worse reality would be like and this still left room for improvement. But the floor was factual and detailed.
But I think for many the status quo was just not acceptable so any hope that a change would be better than the current position was worth voting for.

retracted not restricted

"The only succour I have is that UKIP are now no longer a viable party"

Oh God, I could not disagree with you more.

UKIP is more about immigration than about the EU. Once the Brexit people discover that immigration levels are unlikely to change much following exiting the EU, their rage will be scary to behold and the Brexit incident will become The Lost Cause Where We Were Betrayed.

Just like the SNP, UKIP is likely to emerge from this referendum stronger than before.

Corbyn's a chocolate teapot: a serial rebel who was disloyal to every previous Labour leader but outraged that anyone should be disloyal to him when he's achieved and done nothing to deserve loyalty. He's someone who sold himself on his principles but sabotaged his own party's campaign on the EU and wasn't honest with voters or his party about his own position. Far from being strong-armed by "Blairites" (? delusional!), he could at any point have decided to stand up and lead from the front on whatever position he chose.

Instead he hides behind Momentum activists who threaten and bully people in person and on social media.

Like it or not, if a leader can't command the confidence of his own MPs he has no chance winning an election

^^^^ This as posted by CarolineNightmare

I think this sums up the problem that the country is facing at the moment. A large minority (as it turns out) think that they know best and that people who don't think like they do are stupid, racist, easily lied to, etc etc.*

I think you quoted me there and you've misinterpreted what I meant.

Labour has either lost touch with or failed to engage with the concerns of a big chunk of the electorate, which is linked to immigration (but I think it would be a mistake to think immigration was necessarily the root of it). I think it is more a 'failure to engage' than 'losing touch' - I think they recognise the problem but are terrified of racism, which is a legitimate worry.

UKIP have filled this vacuum by speaking straight to these concerns, but disregard the risks of stoking people's fears, increasing mistrust and widening divides. It's a fertile breeding ground for racial hatred.

The BBC have just issued a correction notice. The no confidence vote was not 172 to 44, it was 172 to 40 with 4 abstentions.

JC has left the building.

It's a turn of phrase!

sorry... that should have been

It's a turn of phrase.

And now he has made it a redundant one as... the no confidence vote was not democratic and he is not going to resign.

So now he is a one man sit in protest. This is the live update thingy:

www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/28/brexit-live-cameron-eu-leaders-brussels-corbyn-confidence

UKIP has been tremendously promoted by the media. Nigel Farage has for years now had a lot more airtime than leaders of parties with a similar level of popular support.

Sorry tiggy... I pressed the wrong button half way through posting... I was going to be all clever and do a Corbyn Hokey Cokey... following that live update. But I seem not to have the patience or digital accuracy needed

a serial rebel who was disloyal to every previous Labour leader but outraged that anyone should be disloyal to him when he's achieved and done nothing to deserve loyalty

^^ This

God knows, Tiggy - apparently there's talk about Angela Eagle, but if he really does stand for another leadership election I guess anything could happen

She's the Wallasey MP isn't she? She is taking a lot of flack locally... her CLP told her to back Corbyn. I wonder what she will do next?

I think it should be the Dep Leader in a caretaker capacity.

There's an odd story in the Mail Online about a photoshoot of the new cabinet. Both Corbyn and Seumas Milne caught on mic wondering whether it was a good idea, and Watson looking v uncomfortable in one photo and entirely absent in the second.