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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Disabled/baby change

585 replies

Babyred457 · 22/06/2016 13:10

Have NC for this as I have spoken to friends about it and don't want to be outed!

DH and I are members of the gym and pool at a local hotel and take baby DS (4 months) swimming there. It's not a large pool and has small communal changing rooms for men and women and then a separate family/disabled changing room. This is the only one with a baby change table and nappy bin so it's the one we always use when we take DS. It has 4 lockers in it so obviously if you use them then you take the risk that you might have to wait for someone else to finish before you can get in and get your stuff.

Today when we were swimming there was only one other person in the pool, a woman in her late 50s/early 60s. We left the pool and went into the family changing room and had just started getting DS changed when the woman started banging on the door, shouting that we had to let her in as she was disabled and this was the disabled changing room. DH opened the door, said that it was also the family changing room and that we were changing DS but that we'd be as quick as we could. She carried on shouting that we shouldn't be using the changing room, that she was disabled and we had to let her in. She was incredibly rude and was making such a scene that I said to DH just let her go first, so we wrapped DS in a towel and waited, poor DS was kicking off but so was this woman and I tend to back down when people challenge me. DH however was fuming and went and spoke to the manager (dripping everywhere!) who agreed that it was both a family and a disabled changing room and that it's first come first served, no one has priority.

FWIW the woman no obvious physical disability (although MN has taught me that not all disabilities are obvious) and I don't think there was any reason why she couldn't have waited five minutes, she was also extremely rude. Had she approached at the same time as us I'd probably have let her go first anyway but she saw us leave the pool and go in there with DS (you can see the changing room from the pool!) so clearly then took a deliberate decision to get out herself at that moment and start banging on the door in an extremely aggressive manner.

So who was BU? It's difficult because almost all the restaurants etc I go to have the baby changing facilities in the disabled toilets. I would always happily fold a buggy or get off a bus for a wheelchair user etc but should a person with a baby have to exit a disabled loo or changing room mid-change for a disabled person? After all what would the disabled person do if another disabled person was already using the facilities?

OP posts:
BishopBrennansArse · 22/06/2016 14:10

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Buckinbronco · 22/06/2016 14:10

Flouncy I'm not sure I understand why someone with a disability would be so distressed by this specific example that it's acceptable to be aggressive and rude in public- there is a chance, if you lock your belongings in a changing room with a lock, that you will be locked out the changing room whilst someone else is using it.

It could happen to anyone, the situation itself isn't disablist (ie a family could just as easily be locked away from their belongings for a short time whilst a disabled person changed) so how is that an excuse for being rude and aggressive?

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 22/06/2016 14:12

Yes people clearly are

splendide · 22/06/2016 14:12

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BishopBrennansArse · 22/06/2016 14:12

That lack of understanding means you are in a privileged position.
Recognise your privilege.

Buckinbronco · 22/06/2016 14:19

So I'm privileged so it's ok for less privileged people to shout abuse at me? Yeah right. I might go and punch the white man sitting next to me in the head to test that one out.

BishopBrennansArse · 22/06/2016 14:23

If you can't understand why disabled people are angry by reading this thread properly then yes you are privileged.

Your decision to go and assault someone for no reason has nothing to do with the issues we 'real discussing, so if you really want to then go and do it. No skin off my nose.

Jasonandyawegunorts · 22/06/2016 14:25

I might go and punch the white man sitting next to me in the head to test that one out.

Please do, It might stop you posting for a while.

Buckinbronco · 22/06/2016 14:26

I know I'm privileged. I'm a white able bodied female.
White able bodied males are more privileged than me however, and I can't just go abusing them everytime they do something that pisses me off. It's a bizarre argument.

Buckinbronco · 22/06/2016 14:27

What happened to your sad face Jason?

AgnetaTheViking · 22/06/2016 14:27

As one thread winds down another pops up. Damn these entitled disabled people who want to access facilities provided for them. Your baby had a choice of 3 rooms, she only had 1.

No she shouldn't be rude to you but disabled people have to fight every single day to do things others take for granted. Some days just don't come with enough spoons.

drspouse · 22/06/2016 14:28

I believe your gym should have a separate disabled changing space and/or a change table in both male and female communal areas.

A change table fixed to the wall or just a portable change mat would be fine.

Not all babies can be changed on a lap (large, hypermobile babies can't). Or even on a bench. But pretty much all can be changed on a waterproof mat on the floor.

Jasonandyawegunorts · 22/06/2016 14:29

What happened to your sad face Jason?

I got confused which thread i was posting on, then i read your post and now i really want you to punch the guy sitting next to you.

BishopBrennansArse · 22/06/2016 14:36

Precisely. So, male privilege and how some women feel about that - and some are confrontational - that's ok. But disabled people objecting to privileged able bodied people misusing their hard won facilities? Or being provocative about entirely fictional situations just to wind up disabled people? That's ok is it?

Of course. MRA coming on here posting about how they are going to use ladies loos and changing rooms, nobody would say anything...

AvengingAngel · 22/06/2016 14:40

Well a changing mat on the floor isn't appropriate. What if the parent or carer is disabled?

FlouncyMcFlounceFace · 22/06/2016 14:40

Buckinbronco I'm a parent to an Autistic 12 yo. He is high functioning in the sense he has good language and very high academic potential but is very rule and routine driven.

In this scenario if he were say swimming whilst I was elsewhere in the gym (not something he's yet capable of because of scenarios like this). He would have a time that he'd have worked out that he needed to get out the pool. In his head, he'd then go to the change facilities, lock the door behind him, retrieve his possessions, dry and change.

However, in the pool DS1 sometimes gets very distressed if touched/ brushed by other swimmers, he hates being splashed (yet loves water), he finds the tannoy very distressing, shouting and over excitement in others is overwhelming.

So DS1 may have been leaving the pool in an anxious state on the verge of meltdown (think complete physical and emotional shut down) due to sensory overload.

His escape/ exit plan would be to get to the disabled changing rooms lock the door and wrap himself very tightly in a towel (deep contact of a tight wrap is a self-sooth method that can help to reduce anxiety).

On reaching the changing rooms if it was locked and he was already emotionally overloaded, panic could set in. Quick reflection of other options may happen if overload level not too high like changing elsewhere, but couldn't get to clothes as locked in room etc. Then at sensory overload point baby starts crying (yes they do, not anyone's fault) further sensory load and further down the path to meltdown the reason the escape plan to changing room has already been activated.

An Autistic person in sensory overload is closer in comparison to sheer fright than aggression. It sometimes gets compared to the adrenaline fueled animal instinct of fight or flight, where the logical element of functioning has shut down to the point that basic instincts kick in and actually the person to be reasoned with are absent.

None of us know why this woman behaved in the way she did. What we do know is no one gained. I'd put money on the fact she's not sitting congratulating herself on getting one over on some young family. The OP, her DH and the baby were certainly caused distress by the event. I post on threads like this to attempt to help explain how it could have been. Not how it should be but how it unfairly can be for some people in society.

I'm passionate that we are society. When things create an emotional reaction in us, we should where possible respond by taking measured action. In this instance, the whole scenario could potentially have been avoided by change tables in the other changing rooms. Also maybe by having the lockers outside the change rooms (they used to have some poolside at one gym I belonged too). It's reasonable adjustments to make that playing field just a tiny bit more even.

(I'll quietly climb down of my high horse now).

FledglingFridge · 22/06/2016 14:41

MRA coming on here posting about how they are going to use ladies loos and changing rooms, nobody would say anything...

Depends if they've got their paperwork filled in or not..

SnotGoblin · 22/06/2016 14:42

Well that escalated into bizarro world shit fighting quickly.

I thought this was going to become a discussion about whether baby changes could be separated from disabled cubicles rather than a 'disabled bashing/able bashing because they're disabled bashing/random people getting up in other people's grills' type thread.

Nobody is making their point with any lucidity, or not that i can be bothered reading through all the sad faces and cries off bullshit anyway.

My scenario definitely happened. The man was definitely rude (I don't care if he was disabled or not; I'm equal opportunities that way) and I haven't namechanged. Good luck OP, YWNBU in my opinion.

FledglingFridge · 22/06/2016 14:42

You stay on that horse Flouncy, you're spot on with it.

drspouse · 22/06/2016 14:45

Well a changing mat on the floor isn't appropriate. What if the parent or carer is disabled?

If they've already got a change table in the disabled changing room, and the disabled parent is using it, they can just leave it there, but removing the sign that says "or families". So disabled users, with or without a baby.

Flouncy I get what you're saying but your DS would need an alternative plan in case another disabled user was already in there, wouldn't he?

Buckinbronco · 22/06/2016 14:46

You see flouncy (thank you for such a great post by the way) that all makes perfect sense and sounds horrible and distressing for your son. But that doesn't make the reaction to people who don't know him and are just going about their business ok.

I know you aren't saying that but my point is- probably similar to yours- there are no winners here but that does not make the abuse ok or acceptable. It's just unfortunate all round and the people being abused don't deserve it either.

NeedAScarfForMyGiraffe · 22/06/2016 14:58

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FlouncyMcFlounceFace · 22/06/2016 15:00

drspouse with the advantage of hindsight I'd have chosen the correct lottery numbers the week it was £150,000,000 and have money to put many of my making life easier schemes into place.

Yes, you are of course right, a plan B is also needed. As is a C, D and E. It makes life bloody exhausting. Life is not predictable. We cannot map out a smooth route for ourselves let alone our DC.

BuckinbroncoAbuse is not okay in either direction. Society is abusing the disabled minority in a very big way at present. Tolerance is at an agonising all time low. Funding for services has been slashed and benefits bashing for just trying to do your best with your lot is at an all time high.

Abuse isn't right, but neither can we just end all support services (care in the community etc) cut off the majority of support and expect people with mental health conditions to either function as NT or be locked in asylums. We need to have tolerance.

NeedACleverNN · 22/06/2016 15:00

As a parent I would be using one of those disabled cubicles.

Not because I need the extra room but because I need the facilities provided.

I have a terrible bad back. Struggle to lift or bend but I don't count that as me being disabled. (Though I am deaf so I do have a disability per se).

If you told me I had to change my baby on the floor I would have laughed at you. I can't. It would be impossible for me

Buckinbronco · 22/06/2016 15:02

I don't think you need an excuse to use the family changing room nickname. It has a dual purpose and that's what it is. The much bigger problem is the lockers being in there which is a really strange idea and is bound to cause problems no matter who is using it