Social climbing - first generation?

[user1465284888]

Hello,

Please note that I am very embarrassed writing this thread, but I need to know whether I am being unreasonable.

I am a second genereation "immigrant", born and raised in London to a mother who is a cleaner and a father who is a cab driver. Through their hard work and sweat, plus my own - I have finished completed my education to a masters degree at a world-renowned institution (Top 5, in the world).

Of course, being a "working class" girl I noticed very quickly that people throughout my education lived very different lives to me. I somewhat admired how they would complain about M&S not having their milk, Harrods running out of their Skiing gear and I wanted that for myself and children. So, I have worked hard and I am about to start work in the city on a very decent salary (just under £50k including bonus).

But, I am worried. I am that I will forever be working class and my children too. A Russian gf of mine told me to mingle well in the city, marry well and send the children to boarding school. However, I am told that the rich can smell a social climber, not even the "middle-class handbook" can save you and that they are not very receptive to "foreigners".

So, my question is - as a first generation, non-white, young lady who genuinely wants the best for herself and children how can I move up a social class and "polish myself"?
I have seen other people from afar do it and after months of lurking, I know there are a few posh mothers who can give me some pointers.

Please help and go easy on me. I am by no means a "gold digger" or "opportunist" as I have worked hard to have my own. I just know what poverty looks like and I do not want that for myself and children. Plus now I am in my early 20's I think I can move up the ladder, surely?

I don't mean to be harsh but 50k is nothing. I work in the city- on quite a bit less than that so I'm not having a go- and honestly there are oodles of people on 50k who are very clearly working class. They're mostly not mingling with lots of posh rich people, not least because even the very rich in the city often aren't 'posh' or rich by upbringing. I work for a law firm and among the bright young lawyers there's a mix of very upper middle class backgrounds and working class backgrounds. Lots of unusual friendships are forged between people who wouldn't ordinarily mix in other situations. Tbh your perception of what it's going to be like sounds very dated.

What job are going to be doing? This will affect who you are likely to mix with. Law firms are still predominantly middle class but only if you're actually a lawyer. Financial stuff seems to be a lot more mixed.

And seriously, 50k is not going to mean you're suddenly leading a middle class life to the point where you need to worry about looking like a 'social climber'. My husband and I earn £100k between us, live in a tiny house in a not very fashionable area and are still paupers compared with most of our neighbours!!

I've gone the opposite way- I'm from a very affluent, public school, middle class background but now earn less than most people of a similar background. Through uni, work, having children and other activities I've met and become friends with a random mix of people. Some pretty wealthy, some not. It's common experiences that bind people together.

Oh, and shopping at M&S is not particularly middle class, and who goes to harrods for ski gear...?!

I grew up very poor. There was no opportunity to learn any instrument except a recorder. Working class people have always played instruments, but not the very poorest. Those in colliery pit bands were not the poorest, most were earning a decent working class wage.

In my experience if you want to mix with people from old money, go work for a small art gallery, publisher or auction house!!

I don't mean to be harsh but 50k is nothing.

If you don't live in London (I live 20 minute train ride away) it's a fucking fortune.

It's a good starting salary in London.

If OP is in finance/law etc she can expect to gain significant pay increases as she gets more senior.

She's 24. She'll hang out with other young people.

50k among anyone who works in the City is NOT a fortune. Yes it will get you a fairly comfortable life, but the OP was specifically concerned with how she was going to mingle in her new circle in the City. The point is that 50k in the City does not equate to 'posh' and 'rich'.

Even generally, in London and commuter belt it's not a fortune. I live a 30 minute train ride away and two people both earning that would struggle to buy a tiny run down two bedroom terrace. We're looking to buy further out, an hour's train ride away, and the same applies for a family size house in many places.

The point is that 50k in the City does not equate to 'posh' and 'rich'.

No amount of money would if you weren't born so called 'middle class'. Well you think what you like about 50k, for that to be one persons wages at 24 years old is a fucking achievement. I will never earn that kind of money in my life.

FGS everyone, can you quit with trying to knock the OP down? Does it make you feel better about yourself to shit all over the achievements of a hard working 24year old?

This is her first job as a graduate. She's 24. 50k is twice the national average salary and, IIRC, 10k more than the average London salary and the average consists of a lot of people who have been in the City for decades and worked their way up. It is an excellent salary for a 24 year old just out of university, no two ways about it.

And if she's good at her job and works hard, chances are she'll find her earnings increasing hugely over the coming years.

Well done OP, don't listen to all the Bitter Bettys on here, their issues, not yours.

Sleepy nobody has said it's a fortune, but I think we're all agreed it is certainly above average even for London. I am on £50k and my company is based in London, though they allow remote working so I commute in one or two days a week from Cambridgeshire. Dh and I are what I'd say is 'very comfortable' - we own our own 4 bedroom house with a reasonably sized garden in a decent area (low crime, good education etc), we can afford what we need and some of what we want, our ds doesn't go without (he doesn't attend private school, but there's no need around here as state schools are good) and we have one big family holiday abroad each year plus several weekends away. We are not rich (or 'posh') but consider ourselves very fortunate and are certainly not struggling by any stretch. Dh earns around half the value of my salary. You can conceivably earn a London salary and remain comfortable because of other choices/ sacrifices you make. Out of my whole team, half commute in and would also consider themselves comfortable on £50k, not so much those who actually live in London, but they're still not skint. So the op has choices. And her salary, at 24, remains above London average.

Why do people keep banging on about the 50k?

Being upper/middle class instead about money, it's about class!bthis is the UK. Poor posh people are still posh. Money is literally the least important thing here.

OP, don't try and change your class, it really doesn't matter to anyone who isn't insecure in their own class and desperately trying to lift themselves by either clinging on to those they think higher, or to denigrate those they feel are a threat to them by trying to trample them down. It's a horrible thing.

Class conscious people make up all these "rules" which are designed to keep them in and others out, everyone's rules are different and you'll NEVER please all of the people all of the time.

This thread is a perfect example of ^^that. People are insecure that they themselves will drop out of a class if someone who is different to them is allowed in. It's just insecurity.

Eg you'll get someone who rhymes off a list of lots of very 'typically middle class' things about themselves, but they'll include one thing (like their car is new) and someone will jump on that and say they aren't MC as MC people don't care about flashy cars and wouldn't buy one.

Or someone will say they're an unemployed single mum on benefits but they're still MC because their house is full of books and their parents were MC, and that their neighbours with good jobs aren't MC, and never will be, because they go on beach holidays. There was a thread the other day where someone was told they would never be MC because her husband was a train driver, even though they blatantly were.

You see? You'll never please everyone, it's all over this thread, you've got people tearing apart anyone who buys anything in Harrods, or food in M&S, or has a personality as a woman, or a good job as a woman, and for not being white or having a regional accent - all meaning someone will never be middle class. It's bloody ridiculous.

People keep banging on about the £50k because some people who clearly aren't conversant with current graduate salaries in the big firms keep insisting it's not much. Perhaps not at a later stage but for a 24 year old it means she's doing very, very well. I have DDs the same age as the OP who have also been to a similar ranked uni, some of whom are in that field of work and £50k is just fine. I agree, stop knocking her at the age of 24. I wonder what all the sneery posters (or their DHs) earned at the age of 24?

I also agree that money has got bugger all to do with class and that class isn't something anyone should worry about.

Their DHs would have earned a few thousand more than their female partners for doing identical jobs.... but that's another debate goodbye!

I wonder what all the sneery posters (or their DHs) earned at the age of 24?

Indeed, it's so often "my white, privileged, middle-aged, able-bodied DH earns millions so you'll never be as good as us" type comments.

Completely ignoring the fact that the OP as overcome so many more factors that (unfairly) mean she has done comparatively better than most men to have got to where she is by this stage of her life. More of an achievement that marrying someone rich, anyway.

As in its unfair that being a woman, from a low income family who are not British or white means that they have to do more than the typical British man, not that it's unfair she did well! Just in case that's not clear!

Couldn't agree more Aye

LittleLion we're obviously on the same page but actually at this early stage of her career the OP's graduate salary in the City will be identical to her male peers.

No-one is saying she hasn't achieved.

They're just saying the £50k doesn't make you 'wealthy' in the City. Also, they are saying that it is not enough to make you 'posh'.

I fail to see how that is bashing the OP

OP, sorry for my earlier. I have been trolled recently...

frankly to be earning £50K at your age is a real true accomplishment- so you are clearly very brainy

I suspect this thread will have unleashed a load of shite, and "advice"

Seriously girl, you are in LONDON baby! what will get you ahead is intelligence, emotional intelligence, quiet self confidence and a sense of humour

keep your head down, listen a lot, read LOADS, be yourself and it will be fine

and I think a lot of people own prejudices and issue are here, so take with a HUGE pinch of salt yes

Her likely or potential trajectory if OP is on that salary aged 24 will mean the OP could easily be in the very, very wealthy category if she chooses to be, before long.

It's really dim to not work that out and assume a 24 year old's salary is fixed for her working lifetime.

Also, no amount of dosh is 'enough' to make you 'posh'. You either are or you aren't, if that happens to be a matter of moment to you (it certainly isn't to me).

Clearly hard-working as well as brainy.

some real gems

I don't mean to be harsh but 50k is nothing

Oh, and shopping at M&S is not particularly middle class, and who goes to harrods for ski gear...?!

There are no 'rules' which you can emulate to become middle/upper class. The types of rule you see published in Tatler and the DM are all completely absurd. Also, IME, the only peole who are 'posh' by birth and actually think being 'posh' makes them superior are the seriously thick and quite unpleasant ones who have nothing else going for them. Class is not what it was, thank God.

Agreeing with most of pps unfortunately class is either a 'you've either got it or you haven't' sort of thing. But fuck it! It means nothing. I think I said it earlier, if people don't like you because of 'class' then sod them. And yeah some classics coming out about 50k 😅

"OP, fair enough to be aspirational and to want to learn about social etiquette as you are entering a social circle that is new to you.

No offence, but to me this just implies working class people don't have a social etiquette/ or at least one that is worth learning/ working class people can learn a lot from the middle class/ they should be grateful.

What a load of shit."

Just to clarify querty that is not what i implied in my post. Each social group has its own inherent as well as evolving 'etiquette', if OP were from a posh background and had found a partner from a more working class family, for example, she would, if she wanted to make an effort and be accepted, have to learn about social etiquette in that circle.

If it is the word aspirational that bothered you, well OP is being aspirational. she is aspiring to be part of a higher socio-economic group.