Social climbing - first generation?

[user1465284888]

Hello,

Please note that I am very embarrassed writing this thread, but I need to know whether I am being unreasonable.

I am a second genereation "immigrant", born and raised in London to a mother who is a cleaner and a father who is a cab driver. Through their hard work and sweat, plus my own - I have finished completed my education to a masters degree at a world-renowned institution (Top 5, in the world).

Of course, being a "working class" girl I noticed very quickly that people throughout my education lived very different lives to me. I somewhat admired how they would complain about M&S not having their milk, Harrods running out of their Skiing gear and I wanted that for myself and children. So, I have worked hard and I am about to start work in the city on a very decent salary (just under £50k including bonus).

But, I am worried. I am that I will forever be working class and my children too. A Russian gf of mine told me to mingle well in the city, marry well and send the children to boarding school. However, I am told that the rich can smell a social climber, not even the "middle-class handbook" can save you and that they are not very receptive to "foreigners".

So, my question is - as a first generation, non-white, young lady who genuinely wants the best for herself and children how can I move up a social class and "polish myself"?
I have seen other people from afar do it and after months of lurking, I know there are a few posh mothers who can give me some pointers.

Please help and go easy on me. I am by no means a "gold digger" or "opportunist" as I have worked hard to have my own. I just know what poverty looks like and I do not want that for myself and children. Plus now I am in my early 20's I think I can move up the ladder, surely?

"user1465284888"

Now there's a genuine username if ever I saw one.

In the real world £50K is well above average.

Meh it's an interested discussion nonetheless Space.

And for the second time, £50k is well above UK average.

Pretending to be something you're not (mega wealthy) has nothing to do with self improvement and everything to do with insecurity.

If you really want to help your kids, encourage them to be kind and respectful humans and not to take the fruits of your hard work for granted. However, if you really insist on fast tracking them socio-economically, then encourage them to marry well and when I say well, I mean someone filthy rich.

What do you think your parents are most proud of, your character or your back balance?

X-posted Braving

OP, don't try and change your class, it really doesn't matter to anyone who isn't insecure in their own class and desperately trying to lift themselves by either clinging on to those they think higher, or to denigrate those they feel are a threat to them by trying to trample them down. It's a horrible thing.

Class conscious people make up all these "rules" which are designed to keep them in and others out, everyone's rules are different and you'll NEVER please all of the people all of the time.

Just be yourself - you (and your parents) have done really well in life. You've worked hard, got an excellent education and a fantastic job for a new graduate. Well done! Enjoy the opportunities this gives you, meet people and try new things with them (be that theatre trips, rock climbing, wine tasting, travel - whatever) and you'll probably find one or more hobbies you love. And meet lots of similar people who love it too and it'll be a comfortable fit for you.

You're already doing well in many ways that matter, just be a nice person and don't sell yourself short by thinking you need to change who you are, you really don't.

various points

1. as a non white person, you will never completely fit in with the upper/middle classes as you are clearly 'not one of them' so stop worrying about it. You will end up being 'London middle class' which is everyone who is high achieving, interested in the world and open to learn new things.

2.learn to be confident and comfortable with yourself and your achievements. Confidence will allow you to travel around the world with an appearance of having the right to be there (wherever 'there' is)

1. manage your money, learn to save up to a third so that if your job disappears you will be able to support yourself for a few months while you look for something new.

4.do not admire people who are rude to shop assistants. shop assistants are the same class as your mother! Good manners are always appreciated by decent people of all levels.

1. do not accept rudeness from shop assistants, they do not own anything, they are employees just like you.
2. make nice friends among the people you meet. do not close yourself off from friendships from people you meet outside of work. true friends will support you through thick and thin.
3. you will probably marry someone who has similar aspirations to you, forward looking and ambitious so your children will have an 'aspirational' upbringing.
4. don't spend money on 'stuff' just for the sake of it. A house or flat, perhaps outside of London, is of more use than loads of visits to fancy restaurants or clothes that will last for one season.
5. take advantage of living somewhere like London. go to galleries, music festivals, walks, look around the place. An open mind will make you interesting and attractive to people.

10. don't be ashamed of your background. most middle class people come from poor backgrounds two or three generations back. 11. relax and enjoy yourself, you are already further ahead than lots of people and you are getting lots of good advice which most of us did not get.

Why would admin delete this thread?

Maybe because op now has her copy?

ha!

Be yourself, you are wc why be ashamed of that? Why be a snob?
The rich are usually rich for some reason, either inheritance, born into it, won the lottery, years of saving from a high paid job.
you can aspire to a mc attitude without having lots of money.
you can give your children access to a wealth of cultural stimulus for very little. You can support them through school and if you can afford it pay for tutors to help with grammar school entrance or just to bridge gaps in education/ subjects where they struggle.
Tbh, once you start on this road of social climbing you tend to alienate yourself from lots of lovely wc people whom you'd probably not want to be associated with.
Never forget where you come from and where you belong, this doesn't stop you from doing well in life.

Ok, thanks everyone. I will try an emphasis this again.. I am not ashamed of my background, want to pretend to be someone I am not... I think I am more interested in middle-class mannerisms.

Hirosleaftunnel you are funny! I didn't win the genetic lottery but I am hoping to invest in myself more (appearance) once I have the money. Gym, hair, nails etc.

why do want the thread deleted though?

middle class mannerisms?? No such thing, is there?

you fail to see that status symbols of wealth and these mannerisms you speak of don't make you 'middle-class' or anything.
It's the attitude and quality of life that goes with it that is important. What's the point of working your socks off 10+ hours a day to be earning £100k+ just to ponce around aiming to seem wealthy? The expense of that isn't financial, but emotional, you won't be spending time with your family, because you'll be pursuing an intangible thing.

I'd rather struggle to pay my bills and have quality time with my loved ones, laughing about how we burned the fish-fingers and even the dog wouldn't eat them. Rather than worry about things like "Oh, did I buy the right dress for this occasion" and "oooh, should I end my little boy off to Eton or to Harrow?" "Oooh, must get to the gym today so I can look nice for x" It's all knobs and bollocks.

Can sympathise OP.

In my personal opinion - you will always be working class. That is no shame, and not something to hide. I will always be underclass. You must accept that to be able to deal with it. My children will be upper middle class because of the life my wife and I provide for them. But I will always be underclass.

That is not the end of the world. I have found (and just because it has worked for me doesn't mean it will work for you) that people are people irrespective of your class. If someone is going to be an arsehole because you are working class, they will be an arsehole because you are a woman, or because of your choice of clothes, or because you don't drink in a particular bar. Arseholes are arseholes, there is nothing you can do about that. So be HONEST. If you find yourself in a restaurant and haven't a fucking clue what the menu is offering you - don't be afraid to ask the waiter to explain the dishes to you. Be YOURSELF. Don't bullshit about things you can do when you can't. Don't pretend to enjoy things you don't. Be PROUD (but not too much so) of getting there. Be happy to admit that you have ended up where you are through a lot of hard work from a lower starting point than many peers. And that sometimes might mean that you won't understand social references or graces. Be KIND to other people. Don't look to exploit weaknesses in others - or you will leave yourself fair game for them to exploit the one you think you have.

unexpsoc This is one of the kindest comments on this thread.

All I have ever wanted in life is to not lack in anything, and as silly as it sounds yes I want that for my unborn children.
I suppose this thread is out of fear of sowing too much working class traits in a job that is dominated by middle and upper-middle classes. I do not want my children to wonder what a banoffee pie is, as I did, because desert was non-existent in my household. We have only started eating cheesecake :D True story.

I don't want to fit in with the snobby and worry about Waitrose never having enough Tatler magazines. Non! I would like for myself in the future not to be so debt ridden, be confident in myself and culture and o transfer that onto my children.

I have been cleaning/retail too part-time alongside my studies for the last 6 years. Not ashamed. I know who and what I am and will transfer those values unto my children.

I suppose I want to upgrade myself and live in the glory of my hardwork.

I am sorry I have offended so many people with my grammar etc, OP and so on. I was just asking for help.

showing dessert and my apologises for other typos!

Just do the things you want to do and enjoy. Have a go at everything once.

I suppose I want to upgrade myself and live in the glory of my hardwork

But you are already enough as you are, OP. That's what the vast majority of us are saying. To think you need an 'upgrade' suggests you're some kind of crappy jalopy that's always breaking down, and which gets jettisoned for a better model as soon as finances allow. Don't insult yourself, your parents and your joint achievements by using that kind of language about yourself.

I can't begin to tell you what I grew up not knowing. We didn't have an inside toilet. We didn't have a bathroom. My parents were barely literate and struggled with filling in school forms. I had to write my own sick notes etc. No one took us to the dentist or was able to help with homework. My parents both came from dysfunctional backgrounds, had no idea what constituted normal parenting, and had way too many children. We were discouraged from inviting anyone home because the house was so small and shabby. I was offered music lessons at primary school as part of a free city scheme and my parents refused because that 'wasn't for the likes of us'.

I could go on forever. That's my past. That's me. My son's life is already unimaginably different to mine, but I don't need an 'upgrade' not to pass on that level of deprivation. Nor do I need consumer trappings that constitute acceptable middle-class social class markers.

You're still young. Work on your confidence. Ask about things if you don't know.

And banoffee pie is claggy and revolting, anyway. No one needs to know what it is.

Op I think I now understand a little more where you're coming from with your latest update. I'm sorry for some of the ridicule you've received. You sound like you want experiences, information and cultural/ world knowledge for yourself and your children more than 'class'. As you will know, much of that comes just from living life and ensuring you value learning, take opportunities with both hands and seek out (and share!) Knowledge and information, which it appears you already do. Having the financial means to do this is helpful but not essential. I don't think you have to do anything additional to acquire these things and I have no doubt you'll provide everything your children need to flourish.

Oi TheCladdagh you take that back about banoffee!

Ahem, may I suggest not using the word 'dessert' at all, unless you mean fruit after a meal?
Banoffee pie would be pudding.

"Gym, hair, nails" . No. Keep trim, yes, by walking everywhere (parsimonious, you see) especially country walks. Hair should be neatly cut, but not glamorous, nor overtly 'done'. Nails, same again, clean, neat, clear polish fine. Understated is the key.

MachiKoro You see how embarrassing it is? Pudding vs dessert?

We used to use washing up liquid to wash our hands and I remember using it instead of the hand soap. My primary school class laughed at me the whole day. I remember thinking it was hand lotion. LOL. True story!

Ah yes but isn't pudding v dessert also a regional thing? Dh is from Yorkshire and it's pudding. I refer to dessert but am not particularly 'posh'.