Social climbing - first generation?

[user1465284888]

Hello,

Please note that I am very embarrassed writing this thread, but I need to know whether I am being unreasonable.

I am a second genereation "immigrant", born and raised in London to a mother who is a cleaner and a father who is a cab driver. Through their hard work and sweat, plus my own - I have finished completed my education to a masters degree at a world-renowned institution (Top 5, in the world).

Of course, being a "working class" girl I noticed very quickly that people throughout my education lived very different lives to me. I somewhat admired how they would complain about M&S not having their milk, Harrods running out of their Skiing gear and I wanted that for myself and children. So, I have worked hard and I am about to start work in the city on a very decent salary (just under £50k including bonus).

But, I am worried. I am that I will forever be working class and my children too. A Russian gf of mine told me to mingle well in the city, marry well and send the children to boarding school. However, I am told that the rich can smell a social climber, not even the "middle-class handbook" can save you and that they are not very receptive to "foreigners".

So, my question is - as a first generation, non-white, young lady who genuinely wants the best for herself and children how can I move up a social class and "polish myself"?
I have seen other people from afar do it and after months of lurking, I know there are a few posh mothers who can give me some pointers.

Please help and go easy on me. I am by no means a "gold digger" or "opportunist" as I have worked hard to have my own. I just know what poverty looks like and I do not want that for myself and children. Plus now I am in my early 20's I think I can move up the ladder, surely?

The 'Rich' are a pretty diverse group these days, socially and ethnically.

If I were you I would concentrate on meeting people who are nice, whom you like and enjoy spending time with, then just marry one of them. In other words, just muddle along like the rest of us .

There will always be someone richer, there will always be someone with a newer car, there will always be someone with a bigger house. If you try to have what they have, you will never be happy. They won't be a true friend it will be tummy knotting competition.

So do things you want, marry the man you want, bring your children up how you want, drive the car (or car's!) you want, do the job you want. Be the person you are not the person you feel you should be or the person you think will 'fit in'. Being a social climber won't make you happy.

I am not even sure the classes exist the way they did????

Money doesn't define class anyway, I come from a family where most are Oxbridge educated and have worked in the city all their lives, wear designer, lunch at the ivy, all that shite. I have fuck all and I married a person who people in my family would consider 'beneath me'. Best thing I ever did. I have no money even though I come from a family of well spoken Oxford educated arse holes. I would rather be happy than force myself to be part of that bullshit anyway.

Maybe instead of trying to fit into a class, try being a bit more classy.

How awfully sad and shallow to be so focused on material gain. There is far more to life than earning a six figure salary.

Oh dear, OP. I think you're going to get a rough ride.

It sounds to me as though what you are really worried about is being accepted by a new class of people. My answer to that is: be you, and if you aren't good enough for them because of some silly class politics, then they're not worth knowing. You will ALWAYS find that there is a chasm between your experience growing up and theirs - accept this and don't try to hide it, because it's a strength and not a weakness. You have knowledge about all sorts of things that they don't and will never understand - and anyone who is bothered by it just simply isn't worth your time. Also, being interesting rather than conventional and boring is a good thing.

I say this as someone who is working class, who now lives in a very middle class world (with a slightly raised eyebrow at times). I was rejected by my in laws as 'good enough to date, but not good enough to marry'. None of that snobbery matters - be you, be happy, and live your life by your own standards and not by those of some arbitrary society.

another

to go with my cup of working class tea!

I do recognise some of this. It is obviously a 'first world problem' (poor me, I've done so well) but feeling like a fish out of water (or imposter syndrome) is a genuine thing. I come from a fairly wc background, went to a posh uni and now work in a profession with a lot of posh boys. It's changing, but that is still the dominant culture. I went through various stages of rebelling against it, attempting to assimilate and then (now I'm in my 30s) giving less of a fuck and basically just code switching/exploiting my class-fluid status where required. Although I do sometimes find myself wondering what my 'real' accent is...

OP, you may find your 'foreigness' actually helps you to avoid being class pigeonholed. You can't turn up on your first day at work a fully fledged aristo. Just watch and learn how others do it. I'm now pretty handy at essential life skills such as passing port correctly, ordering wine in restaurants and introducing somebody's great aunt to somebody else's ex housemaster. Your story will actually help you stand out in a sea of identikit middle class people. You'll find your niche in life.

If you want to 'move up the ladder' socially then you can begin by stopping the self satisfied 'working class girl does well despite the odds' shite - you are not alone,. There are millions of others in the same or worse situation. You are not special.

And you are working class. So what? That's nothing to be ashamed about. To be honest everyone these days likes to consider themselves middle class as if that's some kind of badge of honor, but really what we now perceive as middle class are just working class like the rest of us.

If you focus on your own happiness and being a good human being everything else will fall into place. There are twats in all walks of life, why aspire to be accepted by them ? Why not embrace yourself and your roots and don't seek acceptance from such a warped and dated ugly section of society

It depends what sort of City job you're going into but most of the big investment banks and law firms are very international, multicultural and meritocratic. I work in one, though not doing anything very lucrative or glamorous, and can honestly say that class really doesn't matter at all (sex/gender unfortunately still does, but that's another story...)

It matters much less than it did at my university, where there was a lot more awareness of what sort of school people had been to and what their background was.

I can see where you're coming from - my university experience left me feeling as if I had missed out by growing up working class and not having been to boarding school, but these things matter much less in most workplaces.

Congratulations on getting your job (which is brilliantly paid for a first job).

Be yourself. Socialise with people you like and who get you. Work hard in a job you chose because you love it and it motivates you for reasons beyond the heft of the salary. Spend money on things because you want to not because you feel you have to in order to fit in. Love those closest to you, look after them, enjoy every second you spend with them because when you're lying in your deathbed it will be those moments you care about not how socially and financially successful you were.

So, my question is - as a first generation, non-white, young lady who genuinely wants the best for herself and children how can I move up a social class and "polish myself"?

Honestly, you're not going to be able to fool anyone. In my experience posh people do think about your background and will find subtle ways to ask you about it. Unless you're going to lie (please don't) then they'll work out that you are not from a posh background very quickly. I guess if you don't have a strong regional accent you could just never talk about your youth and they might presume you're a bit more middle class than you were, but I reckon that's the best you can hope for.

As for "moving up a class"- presumably you mean marrying someone posher? (Since you are already in a good job and will have friends in a similar position to you.) Being a career woman is not really the way to achieve this. The guys in my work all have sah wives or if younger have wives in careers they see as "lesser" than theirs. I think in terms of getting with some rich/posh guy it's all about looking polished (facials, blowdrys, subtle but flattering makeup, going to the gym regularly) but not flashy. Move to west London, dress like K Middy, give up having a personality, go on dates and talk about your love of baking and all that stuff that signals that even though you have a job you're absolutely desperate to give it up to look after a man who wants to keep you in style but will barely ever see you due to his long hours/affair with his secretary etc.

Not sure why you'd want this stuff, but it's achievable.

you need to read 'Noblesse Oblige' by Nancy Mitford.

nobilityobliges

That made me laugh because sadly I've seen it all too often.

The Russian girls who hang around the bars in the City have a few names and I wouldn't suggest you follow their lead either..... You are on a highway to no where doing that.

nobilityobliges

This thread confused me a tad. From what I've experienced, the posh and wealthy do indeed look down somewhat on the working class customs, and without he word 'class' or 'posh' being mentioned, they are indeed very concerned about social status.

A friend of mine was afraid to tell any of her friends that her husband had lost his investment job in the City. When I questioned one of these friends, her words were 'well I can see why she'd be afraid to admit it, it's a ruddy awful place to be'.

She was then taken off the lists of charity events and dinner parties, through fear that it would be much to embarrassing for her.

They first think you need to do is find your confidence. As you do you will worry less about social class. Then work hard, surround yourself with friends who are kind, fun and make you happy and stop worrying about social climbing as it wont make you happy. You should be proud of your roots and not hide them - but you are not your parents.

There is a very interesting TED talk about the challenges of women in business / academia called fake it til you make it. Worth watching

I can't abide social climbers. The people I'm drawn to are those who are not desperate to rid themselves of their background and sever their roots. Those who work hard for a living and give something back get my admiration. And I say that as the daughter of a builder and learning support assistant who has so far done alright in life (by my own reckoning). I don't know many social climbers who are admired, respected and can say they are surrounded by true friends. In my world being classed as a social climber is not a label to be proud of.

Lots of people on here will tell you it does not matter, they are wrong. Britain is a very class concious country. I agree with another poster though that being foreign will actually help you. I am from a very poor background, but also from another country. So it is harder for people to pigeon hole you.

I would say good manners are important. It is also important that your children are exposed to a range of cultural experiences. So take them to museums, art galleries, ballet, opera and plays. You don't have to do it regularly, but just let them experience these activities. Also take them out to restaurants and get them used to ordering and being comfortable in a variety of places. Also they need to see that you are not cowed by authority, that you will question things, and negotiate. So go into posh clothes shops and don't be cowed by snotty sales assistants.

There are a lot of things middle class people learn, that they don't even realise they are learning. And a key one is a sense of belonging. Many people from poor backgrounds even if they now have the money, do not feel they belong in a posh restaurant, an opera or a posh hotel. This is a key thing you can give your kids.

" . In my world being classed as a social climber is not a label to be proud of."

oh the irony

Op, I second the pp who said don't use the word 'posh'.
It's a popular word on Mumsnet and almost always said with a sneer.
My family is the opposite to yours: once, a few generations ago they were rich, but the money that my great grandfather's father made has been mostly dissipated as he had quite a few descendants , and neither my DH nor I seem to have what it takes to make a lot of money.

Once you've done your job for a bit, recommend you go and work abroad, in a few different countries and try to meet people from all over the world, lots of backgrounds. Then the concerns of UK class and which school/university will become much less important. You could end up just being 'from London' or even 'from the UK'. Also explore your heritage. These days, in a professional job, it's easy to have an international lifestyle and identity, with friends all over the world. I've found it to be very freeing. Focus on being open to trying lots of things and open to being friends with everyone. Advice for being well thought of in a professional environment is to be polite and work well with everyone. The middle-aged, working-class admin assistant who has worked there for years may not be as exciting a new colleague as a young rich man, but they may have the ear and respect of the senior staff.