Social climbing - first generation?

[user1465284888]

Hello,

Please note that I am very embarrassed writing this thread, but I need to know whether I am being unreasonable.

I am a second genereation "immigrant", born and raised in London to a mother who is a cleaner and a father who is a cab driver. Through their hard work and sweat, plus my own - I have finished completed my education to a masters degree at a world-renowned institution (Top 5, in the world).

Of course, being a "working class" girl I noticed very quickly that people throughout my education lived very different lives to me. I somewhat admired how they would complain about M&S not having their milk, Harrods running out of their Skiing gear and I wanted that for myself and children. So, I have worked hard and I am about to start work in the city on a very decent salary (just under £50k including bonus).

But, I am worried. I am that I will forever be working class and my children too. A Russian gf of mine told me to mingle well in the city, marry well and send the children to boarding school. However, I am told that the rich can smell a social climber, not even the "middle-class handbook" can save you and that they are not very receptive to "foreigners".

So, my question is - as a first generation, non-white, young lady who genuinely wants the best for herself and children how can I move up a social class and "polish myself"?
I have seen other people from afar do it and after months of lurking, I know there are a few posh mothers who can give me some pointers.

Please help and go easy on me. I am by no means a "gold digger" or "opportunist" as I have worked hard to have my own. I just know what poverty looks like and I do not want that for myself and children. Plus now I am in my early 20's I think I can move up the ladder, surely?

If you really are interested in this sort of thing, it is important to note that being "posh" and having a lot of money are totally different things.

Just be yourself OP. Do a great job, earn money, be friends with nice people & avoid the tosspots & everything will fall into place.

I wonder why op isn't telling about the bonus??

Remember money talks, wealth whispers

Has the OP even mentioned living in London?

If not, then £50K is a blooming marvellous salary - especially since she has all the perks of a London wage but not London housing prices. She's young, assumably single and has no children. She's swimming in it!

Doesn't she work in the City?

The most important way to fit in is to be yourself and not to put on an act. DH used to work at a magic circle law firm and someone new started there who put on a fake posh voice and tried to hide her background. Apparently it was very cringey and no one liked her because she was so fake. Meanwhile other lawyers from less privileged backgrounds who didn't put on an act were warmly welcomed. I agree with a previous poster that the true way to gain respect at work is to be very good at your job. Also I can't imagine anything worse than hanging round with people who might judge me for eating the wrong food or using words such as "dessert". I would suggest that you avoid people like that and concentrate on finding some genuinely nice people to socialise with - there are plenty in London.

Ok so maybe 50k is above average but it's hardly rich.

No one said it was rich ffs

Oooh lets all knock the OP down a peg or two, just to keep her in her WC place is that what we're supposed to be doing Regina?

Ok then, if I must....

OP 50 grand is a bit shit for a City salary. You'll never be able to raise a family on that and stay in the SE, never mind London.
It's not even impressive given your tender age actually, and to be fair you'd have realised this had you not been born resolutely proletariat.

Will that do?

But the entire op is essentially asking for tips on how op can seamlessly blend in with the rich crowd without showing her roots, Querty. It doesn't sound like it'll be an issue for quite a while; on 50 grand which includes an unspecified (presumably non guaranteed) bonus

OP I'm from a similar background to you and am now 48 years old. Since graduating I have worked in professional roles and mainly with middle class people. "Middle class" things which I now appreciate are:
Broadsheet newspapers
Radio 4
National Trust
Hiking in the countryside
Travel abroad
Playing a musical instrument
Good quality food, clothes and household goods
Access to a wide range of books, literature

Conversely "Middle class" things I've never got:
Making children sit at the table until everyone has finished eating
Making children write thank you letters for presents received texts and phone calls aren't the same apparently

Looking back what I wished I knew at your age and at the start of my working life was to be comfortable in your own skin. Confidence in your own abilities and not feel inferior to your colleagues because of your background. Take the opportunities to learn things which you didn't have access to as a child and you decide whether you like it or not and not whether they are middle class or not.

You are not born knowing everything and don't be afraid to learn about the things which interest you. One of the things which use to make me nervous was eating out in restaurants especially choosing wine which I like a lot as my family didn't drink so I went to a couple of wine tasting classes and found out what I liked and what went with different kinds of foods.

Another poster suggested you should try everything at least once which I agree with. Middle class families usually are able to give their dcs lots more opportunities and experiences. For example I went skiing a few times as my friends were forever telling me how marvellous it was. I went it was ok but I didn't love it so that was the end of that.

Interesting thread.

"Confidence in your own abilities and not feel inferior to your colleagues because of your background."

How do people manage to keep calm & confident when others blatantly look down on you, without developing a 'chip on shoulder' mentality?

OP, fair enough to be aspirational and to want to learn about social etiquette as you are entering a social circle that is new to you. All I can say, is that going into the finance sector in London is going be a tough path. Rather than hiding your roots, a thick skin and a fast career path are your friends. If you are finically comfortable, try out some activities that interest you, find a few solid friends and a man who is not superficial.

This bull crap is starting to fuck me right off. If you're born working class it doesn't mean shit, if you're born middle class it doesn't mean shit. Fucking get over yourself and just live your life. What a miserable existence you will succumb to, constantly worrying if people think you're working class and you used to live in a 2 up 2 down or any other pointless crap. If people don't like you because of where you're from it says more about them than it does about you. There are rich arse holes and there are poor arse holes. Some people would be arse holes if they were rich or poor.

Aaaaand breathe.

OP, fair enough to be aspirational and to want to learn about social etiquette as you are entering a social circle that is new to you.

No offence, but to me this just implies working class people don't have a social etiquette/ or at least one that is worth learning/ working class people can learn a lot from the middle class/ they should be grateful.

What a load of shit.

If I were you, I would take pride in your roots, and use it to your advantage. You can laugh at your own lack of sophistication if that ever comes up, and I think people would find that more impressive than trying hard to 'copy.

I think there are always people who will look down on you because you are: working class/immigrant/state schooled/woman/regional accent etc. You mostly can't change them but you can decide how you react to them. Being good at your job pisses them off no end and if they are being offensive call them up on it.

Read lots of books.

Really, that's the only "class" difference I ever notice (though I have to admit I don't live in the UK, Germany is less obsessed with all this "class" stuff).
Also, it may pay off to learn some of the less commonly used English words. Which, actually, you do by reading books and looking stuff up.

However, you don't really have to do that to ensure a better future for your children. You are already there. You have money.

Money is not directly related to class. There are poor middle class people. (All those who went to university and studied something they can't get a job with. Happens.) You can be and stay wealthy or even rich with a working class background.

It's more a question of what you want to do with your life. If you notice that all your work colleagues and people you meet are middle class and you don't want to feel like you're weird, then it might pay off to learn how to fit in.

Since you seem concerned about your children:

Prioritize. Save money so your children can learn to play musical instruments or do sports.
Don't be one of those parents who cannot afford things for their children, but can afford a new car.

So reading and kids playing an instrument is middle class? Fuck me.

Playing an instrument is probably less middle class than it used to be as so many schools now offer free tuition to kids on free school meals. When I was a child, yes it was middle class. No way could my parents have afforded either a musical instrument, or lessons. Although I did learn the recorder as we did that at school for free.

Average salary in London is around £35k, compared to £27k for the UK. £50k is above average, whichever measurement you use. At 24 it's good going and anyone still saying it's not either has a touch of the green eyed monster or buys their sandwiches at Harrods.

In fairness mumsnet seems to have some very well off contributors who probably have lost touch with what is normal. Like my friend who described a low paying job as one paying £45k a year. Even her DH raised his eyebrows at that.

Playing instruments isn't middle class! What do you think Colliery Bands were formed of?
There seems to have been some weird shift in the latter half of the 20th century to people thinking WC people must be uneducated, ignorant, uncultured. Where on earth has this come from? in the Victorian times, workers had lots of enterprises outside work, they had allotments, painting groups, choirs, evening classes etc. Where did that go?

Is there a proper definition of middle class? It seems that it is quite a subjective concept judging by some of the responses. For me playing an instrument is not MC at all; I played two at primary school for free (only the grammar schools charged tuition) and it was a school in a rough council estate so certainly not MC children. However being a grade 5 violin player at the age of 8 might be more MC to me, this would imply to me that they were having lots of lessons rather than the one-a-week in school.

My background is thoroughly bizarre, mother English from money but money made by industrialists in Victorian and Edwardian era.Fathers family are Chinese and were very wealthy till the Communists messed it all up for them. My ancestral home on that side is now a rather large museum.

Mother was an original wild child who became a professional dancer and was rather ostracised from her family. Her sister married an incredibly wealthy man and lived in a Manor House for some years. Mother lived a very bohemian lifestyle and married four times. Spent my childhood living in quite a grand but shabby house in the most expensive road in the town I grew up in. Stepfather was an alcoholic and sadly we were neglected.

DH had exactly the public school, instrument playing, horse riding lessons kind of MC upbringing that op is alluding to. His Mother is from a long line of money, family home etc. His Father is from a WC background but got a scholarship to Charterhouse. His Father has spent a lifetime trying to distance himself from his roots and is the unhappiest man I have ever met.

We genuinely don't care what class we are. MIL is a gracious person who treats everyone well regardless of how much money they have and if they play an instrument. FIL is horribly judgemental as he is insecure about his own background.

Being comfortable in your own skin is the most important thing in life.

Of course £50k is a fabulous salary for an under 24 in the City, what are you lot on about?

OP I can't believe that you were bright enough to go to a top 5 uni and you care about any of this stuff.