Social climbing - first generation?

[user1465284888]

Hello,

Please note that I am very embarrassed writing this thread, but I need to know whether I am being unreasonable.

I am a second genereation "immigrant", born and raised in London to a mother who is a cleaner and a father who is a cab driver. Through their hard work and sweat, plus my own - I have finished completed my education to a masters degree at a world-renowned institution (Top 5, in the world).

Of course, being a "working class" girl I noticed very quickly that people throughout my education lived very different lives to me. I somewhat admired how they would complain about M&S not having their milk, Harrods running out of their Skiing gear and I wanted that for myself and children. So, I have worked hard and I am about to start work in the city on a very decent salary (just under £50k including bonus).

But, I am worried. I am that I will forever be working class and my children too. A Russian gf of mine told me to mingle well in the city, marry well and send the children to boarding school. However, I am told that the rich can smell a social climber, not even the "middle-class handbook" can save you and that they are not very receptive to "foreigners".

So, my question is - as a first generation, non-white, young lady who genuinely wants the best for herself and children how can I move up a social class and "polish myself"?
I have seen other people from afar do it and after months of lurking, I know there are a few posh mothers who can give me some pointers.

Please help and go easy on me. I am by no means a "gold digger" or "opportunist" as I have worked hard to have my own. I just know what poverty looks like and I do not want that for myself and children. Plus now I am in my early 20's I think I can move up the ladder, surely?

yes do not ever use the word 'posh' esp. not to rhyme with 'poke'.

Dress your small children in red wellies, stripy tights, party dresses, horsy waistcoats, and fairy wings. That is just for the boys.

Never wipe the snot off your children's faces, and definitely never brush their hair.

Get an old Volvo estate and put a bale of hay in the back for a week. Then later, put an ancient labrador in it.

For yourself, head to toe Boden and Hunter Wellies.

Try to get a posting with work to somewhere like Dubai or Shanghai. No one there cares about class only money. Get a great bag and always, always get a blow dry and your nails done. Find a rich (older) guy and BOOM you are set up for life, no need to worry about your class issue ever again. I see it happen every.single.day.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to achieve and see your children be successful - however you wish to define 'success'. But you can do so without 'marrying well', or 'moving in the right circles'. You also don't have to wipe out your past.

OP, if you're serious, then I think you are quite confused about UK social class, which isn't related to income, or at least in any straightforward way. Don't worry about your children, especially as they don't exist yet, as far as I can gather - just as your life is different to your parents' lives, your children's (if you go on to have children) will be different to yours, and they are likely to have far wider opportunities, as long as you don't scupper them by forcing them to social climb by choosing the right upwardly-mobile hobbies and friends. Also, ironically, your desire to 'better' yourself via 'polish' will class you for many as 'aspirational lower-middle-class', therefore 'Not Quite Our Type, Dear'. So, if your idea is to 'pass' as middle class, just calm down about the whole thing, and stop seeing yourself and your unborn children as rough diamonds to be polished.

Of course, being a "working class" girl I noticed very quickly that people throughout my education lived very different lives to me. I somewhat admired how they would complain about M&S not having their milk, Harrods running out of their Skiing gear and I wanted that for myself and children.

This is a bit silly, OP. Unpick what it is you admired about two extremely trivial examples - is it that they had a sense of confidence and entitlement, and you think that if you have enough money to shop in M and S and bloody Horrids, you will magically become confident and the world will fall into your lap? You are confusing privilege with the trappings of privilege.

(And have you ever been ski-ing? It is insanely fucking dull unless you actually like sliding down mountains in the cold - assuming it's something 'everyone does, darlings,' is mad, any more than everyone likes macramé or going to demolition derbies.)

Stop looking sideways at other people. Your Russian friend's advice is fine, obviously, if you want to be a white-knuckled, 'so obvious you can see it from space, perennially-striving for that whacking great rock' social climber, but it's unlikely to help you professionally if it's obvious from the word go that you're scoping out male colleagues as suitable marrying-up fodder. It's also incredibly sexist. And as a previous poster said, not that likely to turn into an upwardly mobile marriage.

Very proud. I would never try and rewrite my history too because I will use it as a story to teach my children the essence of hard work.

As another poster said, hard work isn't the sole province of the working class. Your children might not want to take your route and work themselves up another rung of the ladder. Your children might not be professionally or socially ambitious at all, especially if you are promoting this as crucial during their entire childhoods and banging on about your roots. I can think of one friends' brother, who grew up in an enormously privileged situation - his grandparents were the ones who'd made the money, his parents were very wealthy professionals, he went to public school and and a top university etc etc - and rebelled' by becoming a tattooed secondhand car salesman. He's as happy as Larry.

happy as Laurence surely

I think it is quite sad to be not seen as 'working class'
If you want to achieve success in your career that is great but just be yourself and stop worrying about whether anyone can spot you are working class!
Why do you want to move up a social class FFS? Mix with people you like and who are decent people. Don't measure friends by thei jobs or salaries.
It is so shallow.
Not what I would call 'success' at all.

Thank you to everyone who commented on this thread. I will take all your advice on board.

Admin, can you please delete this thread!!!!!!

Oh I forgot OP, you need a great body, face doesn't really matter, get to the gym and get working. Nothing says lower class more than flab. Get sleek and gym honed as fast as you can.

use being foreign to your advantage and turn yourn nose up at english snobbishness. Make friends with people based on common interests and focus on your career. Be candid and unashamed of your background.
Bring your children kind and respectful.

After that if people choose to snub you based on your background they're just arseholes. Being an arsehole is not restricted to any particular class.
I find most people you come across in life are genuinely nice and open minded.

(assuming this is for real... !!)

Why do you want this deleted, OP? You've had a lot of useful advice which is worth a re-read, and it's not identifying.

I come from an what used to be classed as an 'upper middle' family. Confidence is always the key. Never worry about what other people think of you - those who think less of you don't matter, they really don't.

Do stuff you want to do because you want to do it - go to that nightclub, go to that play, go to that whatever. Socialise with the people you want to socialise with because you like them, not because of any added value or extra social cachet.

See humour in the little things - getting stressed over detail is not worth the headspace. Be a duck, let life fall off your back and enjoy it, don't worry about where you're going or who you'll meet but make the most of the opportunities that present themselves. Offered travel with your job? Take it. Asked on holiday? Go.

Go into that snooty shop, try stuff on and don't buy anything. Go to that restaurant with a friend and spend stupid money on an amazing meal - not every night obviously, maybe only once but do it. Hire an amazing frock and go to a ball. You are young, go and enjoy your salary while you have no commitments for a couple of years. This will give you the experience to find out exactly the person you want to be and the sort of person you want to be with. You certainly don't need to look to settle down quite yet. None of my friends did until their late 20's, early 30's.

I think people commenting on op's desire to 'climb'being sad and shallow are a tad insensitive.
It is only human to want to fit in.
When one is raised in one way and suddenly thrown in to a different world in early adulthood it is a stelealearning curve. And op is young. I think her thought processes on this are perfectly understandable And i have definitely come across people who try to overcompensate for their background when bringing up their children (including my own df) , so she is not alone in this.

I actually feel sorry for you. Live your life fuck what anyone else does or says, why would you want to
Be in with people that judge on class etc it's sad.

And newsflash 50 k ain't amazing it's average.

Enb76 I agree that confidence is key. But many from very poor backgrounds do not have that feeling of confidence in posh surroundings. Poor people are looked down on by many, that has an impact.

From what I've experienced, the posh and wealthy do indeed look down somewhat on the working class customs, and without he word 'class' or 'posh' being mentioned, they are indeed very concerned about social status.

There's a difference between 'posh' and 'class'

Those who consider themselves 'posh' are generally 'middle class' social climbers aspiring to greater things and looking down on everyone else while being desperately concerned about what other people thing of them. Those I've met and worked with in the upper classes generally don't give two flying fucks what anyone else thinks.

I do hope hiros' post was a joke? Avoid Dubai like the plague, it is the antithesis of classy! Though they're correct about body shape.

As someone who is from a wealthy foreign family, all i can say is do what makes you happy. If you are wise and hard working you will live a good life.

I have a male friend who married into money and totally misrepresented himself to his wife. He literally makes his wife's life a misery because he is obsessed with what other people think constantly and tries to outdo them. They are wealthy enough do literally anything they want but all he can think about is getting further ahead..

Be happy with who you are first. Forget all this social climbing business. Success will come naturally then.

UK average is around £27k. So £50k is considerably above average.

And newsflash 50 k ain't amazing it's average

I wish I was average...

It's not insensitive, just. It's not entirely clear from the OP's posts what she actually wants by upward mobility, or whether she feels she needs 'polish' to appear work-confident, or what. She sounds very young, and rather confused, talking about ski-ing and M and S and her unborn children, and the ghastly 'fuck your way upwards' advice given by her friend.

If she'd said 'I think I will need to be more middle-class in my manners/self-presentation for my new job - could people advise?' I think she would have had completely different responses. But she seems to think she can make herself 'posh' (in her personal life, in her professional life? As a mother to unborn children? It's not clear) by following certain rules, and not to realise that in a class-conscious society, some groups will never let her in at all because you need to be born inside, and others will look down on her precisely if she is obviously aspirational.

I say all this as a working-class immigrant from a very deprived background who arrived in this country on an Oxbridge scholarship and now lives in a very different world to that of my upbringing. I'm not aspirational at all. My politics and accent are what they always were despite the fact that going to a college full of Old Etonians meant I acquired some unlikely, but lasting, friendships with people who grew up in homes that had dower houses and ha-ha s . (Ha-has? What is the plural of ha-ha?)

And many middle class people claim not to see or be bothered about class, in the same way many white people claim not to see or not be bothered about ethnicity.

And newsflash 50 k ain't amazing it's average

why would you try to undermine and belittle someone who obviously feels unsure of themselves?

*them-self

no indication the OP has multiple personality disorder

The really important thing is never to own a loo brush and learn to pronounce quinoa acceptably.

Armed with these two advantages, I think you'll find the upper echelons of British society collapsing at your feet.