Social climbing - first generation?

[user1465284888]

Hello,

Please note that I am very embarrassed writing this thread, but I need to know whether I am being unreasonable.

I am a second genereation "immigrant", born and raised in London to a mother who is a cleaner and a father who is a cab driver. Through their hard work and sweat, plus my own - I have finished completed my education to a masters degree at a world-renowned institution (Top 5, in the world).

Of course, being a "working class" girl I noticed very quickly that people throughout my education lived very different lives to me. I somewhat admired how they would complain about M&S not having their milk, Harrods running out of their Skiing gear and I wanted that for myself and children. So, I have worked hard and I am about to start work in the city on a very decent salary (just under £50k including bonus).

But, I am worried. I am that I will forever be working class and my children too. A Russian gf of mine told me to mingle well in the city, marry well and send the children to boarding school. However, I am told that the rich can smell a social climber, not even the "middle-class handbook" can save you and that they are not very receptive to "foreigners".

So, my question is - as a first generation, non-white, young lady who genuinely wants the best for herself and children how can I move up a social class and "polish myself"?
I have seen other people from afar do it and after months of lurking, I know there are a few posh mothers who can give me some pointers.

Please help and go easy on me. I am by no means a "gold digger" or "opportunist" as I have worked hard to have my own. I just know what poverty looks like and I do not want that for myself and children. Plus now I am in my early 20's I think I can move up the ladder, surely?

@yorkshapudding You are right. I am very proud of my roots. Very proud. I would never try and rewrite my history too because I will use it as a story to teach my children the essence of hard work.

@lenibose This is so true! Thank you so much :)

Working hard isn't the preserve of the working class, and if you stereotype the 'rich' as somehow effete and unreal they'll probably scent that and find it off putting.

You are already middle class - because of your education and employment. Has that suddenly removed your core beliefs? No? First thing to do is to stop assuming that people's apparent spending patterns are anything whatsoever to do with character.

Work hard at your career, find things you enjoy doing when not at work and where you're likely to meet people with the same interests. And use the points of commonality to forge friendships and relationships.

Don't turn 'impostor syndrome' into an enduring way of life!

Pombears

OP, you can be everything you want without trying. I'm black and my (black) husband is on 6 figures (I'm currently on mat leave but earn a relative pittance to him), but we both have no desire to pretend to be anything but ourselves. Yes, my husband drives a fancy car (he loves cars) but he loves a good cheap Chinese takeaway over fancy dining. We both love nothing more than a good sale!

Private school is expensive, you should aim to save for that instead of buying weekly cheese from Harrods.

My uncle is a baronet and my father owns a historic home (although my family aren't super rich really, but I'm told we're posh). My OH is a first generation immigrant like you. He has never pretended to be anything else and my family have always found him pretty impressive for the stuff he's achieved (scholarship to top public school, postgraduate education) without needing him to be something he isn't.

We're not super rich at all, and maybe it's different there, but I genuinely believe that any "posh" friends you make who are worth your while will value you for you and find your authentic story cool and impressive.

Alternatively, my grandmother reinvented herself in the 1930s by cutting off her entire family, changing her religion and refusing to visit her mother on her death bed in case someone saw her and knew. I'm not sure I'd recommend that though. I don't think it made anyone very happy.

Don't worry about it. By virtue of your hard work and the position you are in now your children will not have the same upbringing that you did.

I am in a very similar position. Immigrant parents (cleaner and Tube worker), poor upbringing compared to peers but have done well for myself. I have married a man also from immigrant working class parents with a good job and our child wants for nothing. DS5 attends a great school, has lots of extracurricular activities and a lovely social group. I do my food shops at M&S and Waitrose and live in a lovely detached house in a good London suburb. I have friends from very different backgrounds but we hold similar values which I belive is more important than what class you are. I am happy.

It is not worth thinking about social climbing and you need to just relax and be yourself. You are ambitious and have high standards so surround yourself with like minded people and you will be happy.

Don't try and 'copy' people. DS and I are not into skiing (where we come from there is never any snow- I first saw snow when I was 20!) and we are not going to pretend to do it. We also don't play golf. We do however enjoy music, plays, reading and museums. To some that's a class marker. But to it is what we like doing and we do it with our children. Your kids don't need designer wear and posh holidays. They need to know they are loved and cherished and have the opportunities YOU can give them. Not the ones you think they should have to fit in.
Incidentally my BIL has a gf who tried very very hard. Also an immigrant. Aged 30, earns 100K. Good for her, you think. But she's constantly pontificating about 'wine' and 'art' in a ridiculously and obviously fake way. It is really off putting. You can see she has no interest in either but thinks that she needs to feign interest in this stuff.

Argh. The typos. The typos. Never mind.

Sorry, English is my third language!

What, and you were born and raised here, and I assume went to an English speaking school.

Anyway, my SIL is like this. I am not sure if it's working as I find it really tiresome, but I wouldn't consider myself upper middle nor aspiring it, but based on her tips:

• Live in West London and then Surrey when you have kids.
• Marry someone who has money or the potential to earn quite a bit.
• Send your kids to private school. I'm sure boarding would be even better for you not them.
• Buy a horse or two.
• Ditch your Merc for a Landrover. But dh can have a Sports car as he is a man.

Farahilda your post is gold star

I think i get where you are coming from. Im a non-white/european bod born to immigrants. I think for me, whats changed how i am, how i think, my aspirations etc etc are where i live. My kids will never go to private school or uni as they are severely disabled, however, because we live in a small middle class village, i do get my kids to do the whole horsey, going to norfolk, wearing breton striped tops etc.

Class isn't important. Money and material objects don't mean a sodding thing. I work in a very expensive inde school.

The biggest twats I know are huge earners, with 3 kids in the school Wankers and self-entitled knob heads. All 'new' money. All think they are owed everything because they have money. They're all finger snappy and arsey and demanding to know why their child is failing in school why aren't the teachers doing more? They pay £30k+ (per child) for their fees! Nothing to do with the fact their kid doesn't go to lessons or do their work...

Other people i know who scrape by are decent people who realise what is important in life - the only things you need are to be fed, warm and loved. No-ones needs a wanky ski suit from Harrods, the latest iWhateverAnd three cars to be happy and successful

If you're not careful, you'll fall into the new money way of things and think money will bring you privilege. It doesn't. Sozzlemuffins.

Where you are right now is great. You worked hard, and you appreciate it and the sacrifice your parents have made. That's PERFECT. Don't forget that we're all human beings and all our shit is brown!

Class is really not about money. And I really hope you achieve your aim of £100k soon; but in London that doesn't put you amongst the "rich" either, I'm afraid. Far from it.

Reject measurements of 'class'(mostly materialistic job/income and eilitist) and look for more meaningful measurements of success in yourself and others.

By being a social climber you maintaining unhelpful so called class divided that your parents and you have sought to overcome.

yes, dont try to to copy those who you think are rich - you cant compete with some people!

Think about generations of property, equity in the bank and their parents' huge income from pensions. Their purchase power re property and holidays will be different from yours.

just be yourself - like what YOU like. Working in the city and having money to access nice restaurants and Selfridges might mean your tastes and knowledge change. just be authentic as people aren't daft and will pick up your aspiring - ness.

under 25 in london and on 50k - well done and hope you keep progressing!

Reach 100k and you'll not be happy or satisfied you are chasing self- fulfilment through material wealth and you will be disappointed.

i'd go as far as to say they are an appalling set of values to live by.

Bless you OP. You'll meet a lot of people like you in the city and you'll be junior for a while so lots of people will be like you. There is no doubt that if you climb higher you will encounter more posh than the normal world but they're just work collegues. Marry one and they'll take care of it for you

Seriously don't worry about it now. You've survived a top uni, it'll be easier than that.

My advice to you:

Learn the value of things not their price.

Have integrity.

Don't prostitute yourself for a lifestyle.

Be true to thine own self!

Congratulations, OP, on making it this far, and huge respect to your parents for what they did. My best guess is that the best way you can repay them is by loving what you do, and being happy. On a starting salary of £50K you've avoided poverty straight away, even if you don't get the promotions you expect. There really is no need to 'move up a social class'. Your education has given you choices and the werewithal to act on them. Socialise with the people you like, be polite to those you don't, take holidays to places you want to go to doing the things you enjoy doing. That's the reward for your and your parents' hard work. The rest will follow if you don't try too hard.

Why with the snide comments? It's a valid question and also interesting.

OP, you describe 2 types of person (generalising but it'll do):

• new money who want to enjoy what they've earned
• poshos who don't give a fuck what anyone else thinks

Poshos will sniff you a mile out and will 'know' so your best bet with them is to be confident of your different experiences/outlook/dress/accent - any of those things will make you stand out.

New money, nothing wrong with it at all, they are probably hard workers just like you and you'll already fit in by virtue of your education/job.

£50k is a good salary for your first job, I think you should be proud of yourself and I think you do sound proud of your parents and the opps they've give you.

Perhaps what you're also thinking is that you don't know exactly who you are at the moment and b/c of that it's difficult to work out what other people want from you. If that's right then you'll just have to give it time. If you are mixing mainly with people your own age then most won't give an arse about your background - promise. And if they do you won't want to associate with them anyway, or not for long!

You sound lovely but a bit worried, don't be, just enjoy meeting new people of all sorts and value your own self for what you've done so far.

I think there are some lovely posts on here! You sound like a decent and hardworking person OP so please don't try hard especially to 'mix' with, or become like the knobs the kinds of people that send their kids to 001's school.

Suckingeggs spot on.

You need to disassociate class and income.
You will not afford private schooling in London on £50k, nor likely £100k, if you have two children.
A private education, contrary to what many believe, cannot buy class.
I think you're aiming for 'classy' rather than changing social class, but be aware 'classy' has very different connotations and social mores when used in an American context, an Indian context, and a Northern European context (of which Britain is a distinct branch, with its own localised quirks).
Read Kate Fox's Watching The English for a very numerous and good natured description and analysis of class in the UK. She writes very well, and it's very readable.

Vote labour, green or liberal democrat to bolster education and health and break down class/ethnic barriers so your children can grow up with more opportunites in a society where noone has to grow up with the poverty you experienced

Are you for real??

My mum worked as a cleaner, as did her mum, and neither of them went to university (though my dad did). My grandmother could barely write her name. I'm very comfortably middle class but frankly I don't care about "posh" or "class". I think the biggest thing my mum did for us was our education - reading to us, lots, and then encouraging us to read to her when our reading outpaced hers. I wouldn't worry about "trying to keep up" with your "richer" or "posher" friends - as others have said, be yourself, and find good friends. You will probably find you naturally find friends who share your work ethic and outlook - that certainly seemed to happen to us.

I also think people are being a bit hard on you on 50k. I don't think 50k is "rich" in London, but it's a very good starting salary. Well done you.

Do you want to be a social climber, or do you want to progress up the ladder at work and earn decent money?

The second is admirable, and hard work nad networking will help you out.

The first is dickish and no one likes somoene who pretends to be somoene they aren't.