to think we can afford to have a baby on our income?

[LeilaBell]

DH and I have been talking about starting a family for some time. We both want to start a family, but we disagree on the timing.

DH says we possibly couldn't afford to have children in London on our current income, so we should wait until our salaries hopefully go up in a few years.We both feel ready for a baby but DH thinks our income in London is not enough to start a family, while I think we would be just fine.

Our household income (two earners) is nearly £70k a year, we have no mortgage/ rent (inherited a two bedroom property) and no debt. On top of that we aren't big spenders, so we have a good amount of savings for maternity leave/ emergencies.

I think that given our income we can afford at least a baby (if not two!). Perhaps I think so just because I am naive and I don't realize how expensive babies/ children are?

AIBU to think we can afford a baby already? Are children so much expensive than I think? Is having children in London only for the millionaires nowadays?

OK, I'm going to have a go at slightly defending the OP here..!

The primary obstacle to having children in London is the cost of housing. You are very lucky to have a two bedroom flat which will be enough space for the next few years if you have one or two children. I suppose what you need to consider is what happens after that. What are the schools like in your area (because you won't be able to afford a London private school)? Can you move out of your area to somewhere you could eventually afford a three bedroom house, even though you are not able to afford much of a mortgage on your income? Are you both prepared for how much childcare will be?

70k plus a 2 bedroom flat may sound like a lot, but I do have some sympathy for the fact that, if the OP has a baby and takes maternity leave or stays at home, one income of c. 35k gross is not very much in London even with a 2 bedroom flat to live in. Factor in that they will probably want to save up to move to somewhere with 3 bedrooms, and it starts to look less like a stealth boast and more like a sensible question about how to plan for the future.

(Still very jealous of the free London flat though!)

c. 35k gross is not very much in London

It's plenty if you have no rent/mortgage to pay.

You'll never be able to afford a baby if you equate "this will have a financial impact" with "we can't afford it".

The phrase "can't afford it" is utterly meaningless for anyone who doesn't have to choose between either spending the last coin they have before payday 5 days away on some bread because there's no food in the house or having the electricity on. If you have enough to eat and pay your bills then anything that doesn't reduce you to that breadline is just a matter of priorities. You choose how much to spend on clothes, leisure, hobbies, special events, holidays, charity donations etc etc and when you say "I can't afford it" you mean "the other things I spend my money on are more important to me".

This was really hit home to me when I was working as a fundraiser and someone who was being asked for £5 a month explained in great detail that after paying for mortgage, school fees, gym memberships, golf club fees, phone contracts, household bills and food shopping he and his family had barely £500 per month to live on so he simply couldn't afford any charitable giving. Meanwhile less selfish people on much lower incomes happily signed up to give £20 a month or more because the cause was more important to them that whatever else they might spend the money on.

I suspect when your DH says you can't afford it he means "I am still too immature and selfish to be a father" - is he right?

Taking this at face value OP, yes you can afford a baby, as you can see and probably realise, many people manage on a lot less and have additional costs.
You need to have a frank conversation with your DH. What is it he thinks you can't afford? If he wants private education, nannies etc then yes, those are expensive for sure. If he wants to be able to continue life without making any changes, then I'm sorry but that makes it sound like he isn't ready yet.

Please do, Bee! Is it too early for ?

X posted, ah, I see. If he wants to be an involved father then I'd suggest he gets as senior as he can (this goes for you too), and chooses his employer carefully, looking for one who really believes in work life balance (rather than just says it does, big difference).

There's then more likelihood of being able to work flexibly, work from home, work part time etc. What fields are you in?

DH grew up in a very wealthy family and was privately educated. I think he feels like until he can afford to offer the same upbringing to his own children he won't feel ready. But honestly, given our fields that will most likely never happen.

On the other hand I grew up in a middle class family and was educated in public schools, so perhaps I don't set the bar so high.

I agree you can afford children, but it depends what you are spending your money on now and if you will still be able to do those once you have children. Sit down and work out a budget, you say your savings will cover the drop in income whilst on mat leave. Next look at the cost implications of you returning to work or not and what kind of childcare options are available. Once you have this worked out sit down with your husband and discuss. He may have different expectations about childcare and schooling to you so this needs to be discussed. If he is envisonaging sending them to Eton for example.

As others have said the issue may be more the change of lifestyle or not feeling ready to be a Dad. How old are you? Can you afford to wait from a biological clock point of view. You need to discuss this with him too, med can reproduce at any age and I think they often don't realise the time pressures that women have.

Are you British, OP?

You can still have a career and children. Ridiculous excuse.

If one parent is able to do more family orientated roles the other parent can work on their career.

Yes a few sacrifices may need to be made, but that's life isn't it?

The key to this is quality time when you're not working.

Are you British, OP?

No, I am not British. I am from a Western European country, while DH is British.

Honestly, there are some horrible people on mn these days! The op is asking a sensible question about financially planning for children and if more people did that it would not be a bad thing.

Whether £70k is enough depends entirely on the lifestyle you want/you want to give your children. Consider moving costs, education, holidays - whatever is important to you. I personally won't be having any more children partly because I couldn't give them the same lifestyle and education and nor could I maintain the same lifestyle for us all.

Op - work out your likely costs and take it from there :)

Are you British, OP?

That's what I wondered, when I read "public school" meaning "not privately educated".

Nope. You need an income of at least (plucks figure out of head) £150k. Does that help?

DH grew up in a very wealthy family and was privately educated. I think he feels like until he can afford to offer the same upbringing to his own children he won't feel ready. But honestly, given our fields that will most likely never happen

There are loads of people who have a lower standard of living than their wealthy parents.

He has 2 choices- earn more or live with the fact he can't aspire to the same things.

I find it incredibly strange that you posted on here, winding people up in the process, rather than speaking to him about what your common goals are.

Wanting a baby some day is not the same as wanting a baby now. Maybe he just doesn't WANT to have one yet (a perfectly reasonable feeling at 30 and 28).

Wanting to give his kids the lifestyle that he had - a nice idea but will it ever happen? You should do some careful planning and figure out if and when that might come about, and at what point you will say "we will never have enough money for that, so let's accept it".

DH and I pay rent and we do fine on like £22,000 a year. We buy our DD loads of presents all the time and manage to keep at least £3,000 in our savings.

Children are not that expensive. The things that is expensive is not being able to say no to your child .

What do you currently spend your money on?

Sounds like you need to clarify your respective expectations around the type of lifestyle you want (is he happy having a baby in a flat or does he also expect to move and presumably take on a mortgage to make that possible before having a baby?) and the type of education (Private? State?) you each envisage for your children as both those things will have a big impact on timing. Also, what you each envisage happening work-wise when you have children (ie Will you both work? Will you have a nanny?).

Having said that, at 28 you're on the young side to be having a baby in London if you're a professional. I had my first ds in London in my early thirties and was one of the younger mums in our neighbourhood and NCT group. But you don't want to discover in a few years that you have wildly different expectations and that his criteria for having a baby won't be met until after the upper age at which your happy to have your first baby. May help to work out how old at the most you want to be when you have your last child, how many children you'd have in an ideal world, and work back from there together. Then formulate a plan.

DH and I have been talking about this topic a lot, I am not posting on MN instead of talking to him. I just thought I could use some impartial opinions on the situation.

I do believe DH when he says he wants children. He is a crappy liar, so I think I would spot it pretty easily. Moreover, he has a very strong sense of family.

I think he is a bit scared and trying to postpone it until he feels professionally and financially secure. However, I wonder if he will ever feel professionally and financially secure enough, given the current economic climate.

I just find it really strange that someone with enough education to earn your salaries couldn't figure this out for themselves.

People seem to be deliberately misinterpreting your post, possibly because they are so jealous of your lack of housing costs.
From what I understood, the op was not asking 'can we afford a baby on this income?', as she can see that they obviously can. But her DH is insisting they wait and she is trying to figure out why.
I agree that you need a long chat with your DH about expectations re education costs, and what children actually need.
It's possible that his own upbringing has made him blind to the fact that the majority of families do just fine on substantially less money than you have.
He also needs to be completely honest about his reasons for wanting to wait.

Yes you can clearly afford to have a baby. He must know that are you sure he doesnt have other reasons for not wanting a baby? Maybe hes just not emotionally ready? x

If you wait for all conditions to be perfect you might never do it.