All PIV = rape??

[Flashbangandgone]

Stumbled across this article...

witchwind.wordpress.com/2013/12/15/piv-is-always-rape-ok/

Seems not only to be strongly arguing that all PIV is necessarily rape, but is incredulous that a feminist could think differently! AIBU to think this is bonkers or has the virtually the whole population of women (who don't think this way) just been brainwashed?!

Exactly zero posters have said "Witchwind speaks the truth and her 'utopia' should be enacted immediately, starting with the killing spree."

Many posters have said "Her posts are interesting thought experiments, though."

OP asked: AIBU to think this is bonkers or has the virtually the whole population of women (who don't think this way) just been brainwashed?!

My personal reply (I am not speaking for the imaginary FemBorg) is: Yeah, it's a sweeping statement that is patently untrue. But the brainwashing question's interesting, can we discuss ideas around that?

I don't remember agreeing to justify my every thought and word to you. Congratulations on having goaded me into it, anyway.

user1463231665 Wed 25-May-16 12:03:03

"I would of thought all thnose mumsnetters exhausted because the baby and toddler get them up in the night all the time with a husband constantly pestering them for sex they don't want (i.e. probably how things are for a majority of British couples) might find it very useful to have some points against PIV sex to debate with their other half when they say yet again - not tonight darling."

Is there any evidence that being pestered for a blowjob when trying to deal with baby and toddler is in any way preferable? What I want is a husband who gets down to it and does some bloody work! Sexual techniques seem a bit of a smoke screen: let's concentrate on ensuring (as per sensible MN guidelines) that I get an equal amount of leisure time, an equal voice in any decision making and equal access to any resources.

"Sexual techniques seem a bit of a smoke screen: let's concentrate on ensuring (as per sensible MN guidelines) that I get an equal amount of leisure time, an equal voice in any decision making and equal access to any resources."

Absolutely. This thread is about sex, though. Which is why that's what's being talked about. Not because anyone thinks it's the most important thing and should be discussed to the exclusion of other things.

"Perhaps you can explain why all the people who agree with this should care that YOU happen to find it such a fascinating polemic ?"

The thread ran for 20 pages with most posters interested in it. Presumably a number more clicked on and clicked away, as often happens on MN. But now you want its existence justified?

I notice that lass, itsall and Flash seem to be treating this whole thread as if it were an exposition of feminism - like an advertisement or a presentation.

No I have not.

I compared her rantings to the sort of ranting about socialism you get from the likes of Tommy Sheridan - in other words completely unhelpful to their causes. I have not made any general comments.

slight off topic but PIV is an horrible acronym.

Why? Penis in Vagina is accurate. What would be a good alternative?

Bertrand, of course I don't mean we shouldn't discuss sex. Even so, the suggestion that banning PIV would suddenly put a stop to abusive men using sex to dominate women seems a bit naïve to say the least. Plenty of women on here who feel obliged to provide blow jobs as and when requested, regardless of how they feel.

Good point. Why not make it and join in the discussion? It's a very interesting one.

What utter bollocks.

Loving the nuanced discussion on here!

Penis in Vagina is accurate. What would be a good alternative?

I've always preferred VAP. Vagina around penis :)

This thread is not about sex.

Is it Piv (or Vap!) or P.I.V (V.A.P...)
Just cause i always read it as an initialisation rather than an acronym?

Sorry, bit o/t!

I compared her rantings to the sort of ranting about socialism you get from the likes of Tommy Sheridan - in other words completely unhelpful to their causes. I have not made any general comments

Precisely... Accepting witchwind and her extreme friends' (Dworkin etc) views as a legitimate part of the feminist family, damages the cause of women's rights and their emancipation. How? By providing those who want to undermine feminist causes with ammunition to attack it.

Being defensive and circling the wagons around any attacks on witchwind's views and describing these attacks as somehow being anti-feminist, implies her extreme views are part of what is seen to constitute feminism. This makes me less likely to want to call myself a feminist, ironically not because I don't wholehearted support improving female equality and dignity (and indeed the promotion of the view that sex shouldn't be phallocentric!), but rather because feminism is tainted by such poisonous ideology that many in the movement don't seem to want to rid it of!

So, Flashbangandgone- what do you want people to say?

I think feminists should say that witchwind and her extreme ideology have no place in the feminist movement.

Do you also think that feminists shouldn't discuss or talk about her views?

I think telling women what they can and can't say is part of why we need feminism.

Wouldn't VAP and vape get mixed up? That could be dangerous

Women can say what they like! Witchwind can say what she likes! I'm just saying in think her views are detrimental to feminism. Still the wagons remained circled by self-confessed feminists on here determined to embrace her radfem extremism as part of the feminist cause.

Yes, her views can be treated with hyperbole and used as a basis for healthy discussion, in much the same way as the BNP manifesto could to inform a discussion on race relations.

What a load of shit! It keeps going on about how "unnatural" it all is. I stopped reading when she stated sex can ultimately cause death 😂.

So how are we supposed to carry on the human race without piv sex? Pour sperm into our vaginas? Or just magic up babies?

The person who wrote this is seriously messed up in the head.

More seriously, not that I am in this discussion as part of a cheerleading squad for feminism, but I think the thread has some very interesting general points about the position of PIV in society (you said so yourself, flash) so quite why the thread is tainting feminism in your view, I don't know?