Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

All PIV = rape??

588 replies

Flashbangandgone · 21/05/2016 21:28

Stumbled across this article...

witchwind.wordpress.com/2013/12/15/piv-is-always-rape-ok/

Seems not only to be strongly arguing that all PIV is necessarily rape, but is incredulous that a feminist could think differently! AIBU to think this is bonkers or has the virtually the whole population of women (who don't think this way) just been brainwashed?!

OP posts:
Flashbangandgone · 23/05/2016 21:33

Whereas this radfem idea is coming from her fear of men and wanting to have peace from it. Not the need for power/control over others.

This is minimising her position. Underneath it all there is the need for power over others.... Both in her refusal to accept that women may be genuinely heterosexual (but all that do are actually suffering from Stockholms!) and that all males over 15 are isolated from each other, living in huts.

This is my issue... A number on here think she's just some feminist with quirky yet thought provoking views that can have a positive influence on feminism.

OP posts:
SomeDyke · 23/05/2016 21:36

Is Radical Wind and her blog the new Scum Manifesto......................
(by which I mean the example trotted out to show how ludicrous/violent/mad (some) feminist thought(s) are).

And those who find "UTOPIA: what would a women’s society look like?" shocking/puzzling/weird obviously haven't read much feminist post-patriarchy womens science fiction (Herland,:Charlotte Perkins Gilman, The Female Man: Joanna Russ). Trying to envisage such a future, even an extreme and distorted one, is fairly standard in feminist literary circles.

As regards 'All PIV is rape' -- I think it isn't so much that you agree, but can you actually demolish the argument that leads to that conclusion? Just saying 'it's bonkers' repeatedly doesn't count, although instructive in a way that it's the conclusion being rejected as so obviously ludicrous rather than showing why it is wrong.

I think of this type of thinking (Scum manifesto etc) as parody, satire and hyperbole. That the patriarchal normality and ways of thought are so ingrained that such extreme excursions are useful to highlight what might be changed. RADICAL feminism meaning getting right to the root of the issue as to why relations between men and women are the way they are (and how they might be changed). The monetary importance of pornography alone tells us that there is more going on here than simple sexual pleasure for all..........and what is the prime act repeated again and again in pornography. Penis in something. If pornography is viewed as propaganda rather than simple pleasure material, then what is it that it is espousing?

Anyway, the existence of the ensuing discussion on this thread shows that the hyperbole has achieved something, in that I don't think this discussion would have got going without it.

thebestfurchinchilla · 23/05/2016 21:37

Penis in vagina, isn't that was sex is to most straight couples? Seriously, some people have way too many axes to grind and way too much time on their hands. No penis gets in my vagina unless I want it there!

DioneTheDiabolist · 23/05/2016 21:38

If she could be entirely rid of men, I don't doubt she would chose that option.

And as such I will view her as I would anyone who thinks that genocide is the solution to their problem.

Flashbangandgone · 23/05/2016 21:38

Vestal

Not a massive difference....

Witchwind sees women as superior, and wants to place men into very submissive roles for the benefit of womenkind

Isis see men as superior, and want to place women into very submissive roles for the benefit of mankind.

Both are evil.... Unfortunately, Isis have the power to exercise their ideology to an extent.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 23/05/2016 21:41

You want every feminist to disavow witchwind's view or we might as well be supporters of ISIS ?

< polishes shotgun >

Flashbangandgone · 23/05/2016 21:42

Somedyke

If her views are hyperbole, then perhaps she is making some interesting points.... However, as another poster said earlier in this thread, her style didn't seem to be hyperbolic, more matter of fact.

OP posts:
AHellOfABird · 23/05/2016 21:44

"Rid of" doesn't necessarily mean "kill en masse", Dione!

Flashbangandgone · 23/05/2016 21:44

Anyfucker

Witchwind's views are genocidal... So are Isis' views. Why are there so many on here who seem so reluctant to say she doesn't represent feminism!

OP posts:
RufusTheReindeer · 23/05/2016 21:44

Let me get this straight again

A woman has written some unpleasent downright evil stuff

And is therefore the same as

an organisation of hundreds and thousands who are activly DOING some unpleasant downright evil stuff

Can you at least compare her to a single man who is writing nasty stuff...

Shit only Jeffery Archer springs to mind, and i dont think he is that bad

RufusTheReindeer · 23/05/2016 21:47

YOU ARE NOT TELLING ME WHAT FEMINISM IS!!!

THERE IS LOADS OF STUFF THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE FEMINISM

ITS VERY CONFUSING

RufusTheReindeer · 23/05/2016 21:48

ahell

I would put them all on the isle of wight

AHellOfABird · 23/05/2016 21:52

Not the Isle of Man?

RufusTheReindeer · 23/05/2016 21:54

Nope

I will be renaming that the isle of woman

RufusTheReindeer · 23/05/2016 21:54

Very quick though ahell

Grin
BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 23/05/2016 21:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AnyFucker · 23/05/2016 21:58

nobody on this thread has said that witchwind does respresent feminism

but you seem to be implying it

DioneTheDiabolist · 23/05/2016 21:59

She doesn't use the word "kill" AHell, she prefers the term "euthanised".

Flashbangandgone · 23/05/2016 22:04

Ok, I can see the flaw in the Isis analogy...

A much better one would be a mainstream muslim who refuses to condemn the views of an Islamist hate preacher and thinks that by 'circling the wagons' they are somehow promoting Islam, when all they are doing is encouraging those looking in to think that extremism is a legitimate part of islam

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 23/05/2016 22:08

This is my issue... A number on here think she's just some feminist with quirky yet thought provoking views that can have a positive influence on feminism.

Nope. A number on here think that discussing the PiV sex =rape theory and exploring the expectations and societal norms around sexual transactions between men and women and broadening out definitions of sex could well have a positive influence on feminism. I think some of us were a little blindsided by your sudden introduction of separatism and knocking boy babies on the head.i think it's safe to assume none of us agree with that.......

RufusTheReindeer · 23/05/2016 22:12

Agree with bertrand

I love my boys and anyone suggesting euthanising them will have a problem on their hands

Would consider the isle of wight though Hmm actually to be fair i would send my daughter as well

Just children on the island...or teenagers

Flashbangandgone · 23/05/2016 22:12

nobody on this thread has said that witchwind does respresent feminism but you seem to be implying it

?? I have been unequivocal in my view that she absolutely does not represent feminism. My issue is that there were a few posters who seem very reluctant to agree with that position, and argue that I was somehow anti-feminist for roundly criticising her views as abhorrent and undermining of feminism.

OP posts:
BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 23/05/2016 22:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AHellOfABird · 23/05/2016 22:15

Nope.

You were criticised for using the word feminazi,

Don't misrepresent, please.

RufusTheReindeer · 23/05/2016 22:15

And in a lord of the flies situation

My daughter would end up ruling the island, so that would be a proud mummy moment