All PIV = rape??

[Flashbangandgone]

Stumbled across this article...

witchwind.wordpress.com/2013/12/15/piv-is-always-rape-ok/

Seems not only to be strongly arguing that all PIV is necessarily rape, but is incredulous that a feminist could think differently! AIBU to think this is bonkers or has the virtually the whole population of women (who don't think this way) just been brainwashed?!

Bertrand

Yes, the general debate on here has been very measured.... I agree that in general concept of sex is too phallocentric... I've not really commented on those posts as I've had nothing really to contribute as others had clearly done more thinking than me.

Genocidal? Absolutely. Read her 'utopia' piece.

So which posts are bothering you?

Oh, you are talking about a piece other than the one you started a thread about? And suggesting we are equivalent to Isis supporters if we haven't read it and condemned it, even though we've been talking about PIV ie the subject of the thread, on which you agree we've been very measured?

I would appreciate an apology re likening me to a supporter of Isis.

Oh, ffs!

Utopia ???

My issue was that certain posters had indicated some sympathy with her positions, though admittedly not agreeing fully with the conclusion. This was after I had linked to utopia and some other similar outlandish articles.

Has she ever killed anyone? As in, actually caused their death? In fact, can you point me to one instance of an extreme feminist who has killed anyone because of their political ideology? Not just written an extreme blog, but actually committed an act of violence?

Because ISIS, white supremacist racists, Hitler, Stalin... they've actually killed people.

That is a massive difference. An unbelievably big difference. Can you genuinely not see that? Or are you being disingenuous to take cheap shots at feminism?

You want me to disavow her views and condemn her based on a whole load of stuff she has written that i havent read?

Errrrm...no

I have already said that i don't agree that PIV is rape, i am not reading anything else...apart from my current book....and more mumsnet...and possibly the tv guide

I'm another one who thinks "all PIV sex is rape" is bonkers. The discussion Buffy and others were having is much more interesting.

The only thing is I'm sure I read somewhere that abstinence isn't actually very good at preventing pregnancy.
Obviously if you do it perfectly it will be 100% effective but people aren't perfect.
So the pill is 99.9% effective in terms of perfect use but the typical use is 91% effective (because women forget pills, get stomach bugs etc).

So in the same way abstinence should be really effective with a perfect use of 100% but obviously some people will slip up and still have sex.

Basically I'm wondering if couples will actually be any good at avoiding PIV or if it will happen anyway.

Disavow reminds me of misson impossible

I would appreciate an apology re likening me to a supporter of Isis.

I stand by my view that a feminist not disavowing witchwind and her doctrines is analogous to a mainstream Muslim refusing to disavow Isis. The philosophies of both witchwind and Isis are bloodcurdling... The main difference of course being that Isis are able to impose their perverted worldview on part of the world, where witchwind thankfully isn't.

I don't agree with everything she says.

Will that do?

Incidentally, where did you come across her writing?

Oh i get it now

Witchwind is bombing people and cruxifying them and raping and murdering people

In that case consider her disavowed

Fuck me but she is a busy girl

Are you saying feminists should all declare whether they agree with her or not?

They are her views, born out of her experiences with men and society as a whole. She hasn't acted on her views and created a woman only society. Her utopia isn't something that will actually happen. For a start, most can see that it isn't right that women should fear all men.

They aren't views feminists should explain or apologise for.

Hadnt even heard of her til this thread

Does that mean that its the OPs fault for introducing me to something i had no knowledge of

So basically you're getting seriously upset about a blog post one angry woman wrote 3 years ago, and saying that if feminists don't condemn her out of hand we are comparable to ISIS. OK, then. good luck with that.

To be fair bumbleys face has put me off reading the utopia one

Secondly, isis aren't about ideaology - they have created a cult because they want the land for wealth and power. Not for islam. So asking Muslims to explain or apologise for isis is wrong too.

And Hitler's ideaology was equally based in a lust for power and control.

Whereas this radfem idea is coming from her fear of men and wanting to have peace from it. Not the need for power/control over others.

Basically what it comes down to is this: either you genuinely think her writings put her on a par with ISIS, in which case you are woefully ill-informed and remarkably stupid, or you don't think this but are pretending to in order to push your own political agenda, in which case you are disingenuous and dishonest.

Either way, you are not worth engaging with.

Oh I don't know. Her writing looks very much about wanting power and control: no man allowed to hold a position of power or authority, no male teachers or doctors, all males over the age of 15 to live in huts away from women and children and the murder of prisoners.

"Basically I'm wondering if couples will actually be any good at avoiding PIV or if it will happen anyway."

Good point!

Ok, I accept that a comparison with Isis is not the best analogy.... A more reasonable comparison would be to a hate-preacher.
Having said that, the ideologies are both utterly repugnant.

Whereas this radfem idea is coming from her fear of men and wanting to have peace from it. Not the need for power/control over others.

Yes, this.
I wonder why people are unable to grasp that difference. It is quite obvious.

Basically what it comes down to is this: either you genuinely think her writings put her on a par with ISIS,

In terms of power to carry out their actions, of course not... In terms of ideologies, they are both evil and genocidal... Though i admit Isis is the worse.

Oh I don't know. Her writing looks very much about wanting power and control: no man allowed to hold a position of power or authority, no male teachers or doctors, all males over the age of 15 to live in huts away from women and children and the murder of prisoners.

If she could be entirely rid of men, I don't doubt she would choose that option.
One needs a certain extent of power and control if one wants to be safe around men. That's not the same as wanting power and control for the sake of power and control.

Now compare that to Islamist groups who want to keep women around to rape them and use them to breed new soldiers.

Quite a difference.