Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

All PIV = rape??

588 replies

Flashbangandgone · 21/05/2016 21:28

Stumbled across this article...

witchwind.wordpress.com/2013/12/15/piv-is-always-rape-ok/

Seems not only to be strongly arguing that all PIV is necessarily rape, but is incredulous that a feminist could think differently! AIBU to think this is bonkers or has the virtually the whole population of women (who don't think this way) just been brainwashed?!

OP posts:
RufusTheReindeer · 23/05/2016 22:17

I will stop now as the thread is going back to serious and intelligent debate

No place for me here Sad

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 23/05/2016 22:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AHellOfABird · 23/05/2016 22:21

Beastkill, surely, if we are referencing Lord of the Flies?

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 23/05/2016 22:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

user1463231665 · 23/05/2016 22:29

There is nothing wrong with women or men speculating on a world without men or women. It is good to get debate going. I would not want the right to discuss such issues to be go.

BertrandRussell · 23/05/2016 22:35

Oh, stop making things up, OP- your mask is starting to slip.

Flashbangandgone · 23/05/2016 22:39

What am I apparently making up?!?

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 23/05/2016 22:43

I'm eagerly awaiting the next "I don't identify as a feminist because a random woman told me I couldn't be because I shave my my legs/like men/wear nice clothes" thread with the addition "I'm not a feminist because I think it's wrong to kill baby boys at birth and that's what feminists want to do"

BertrandRussell · 23/05/2016 22:44

"and argue that I was somehow anti-feminist for roundly criticising her views as abhorrent and undermining of feminism."

This. You made this up.

RufusTheReindeer · 23/05/2016 22:47

BACK AWAY FROM THAT CONCH!!

Nope I like intelligent debate....as a spectator you understand

BertrandRussell · 23/05/2016 22:49

And this "A number on here think she's just some feminist with quirky yet thought provoking views that can have a positive influence on feminism"

Because you made it look as if we were talking about separatism and baby killing. When we were actually talking about the PiV=rape point of view.

Misrepresenting if not making up.

Theydontknowweknowtheyknow · 23/05/2016 23:09

Oh for goodness sake. If I were an alien, newly arrived on earth, and I read all the scaremongering crap about feminism I'd be like "oh fuck, how many thousands of people have these awful feminists killed?" I'd be looking for mass graves of chopped up penises and scared to read the news in case of another bombing as Radfems get one step closer to setting up their caliphate. ..

So tell me OP, how many people has feminism actually physically killed? I think you'd find it fair to say that women / feminists have more to fear from men (NAMALT) in terms of violence than vice versa. So why is that feminists are the ones painted as militant man-haters? Because feminists are not the ones marching into sororities or universities, lining the people they don't like and shooting them are they?

Seriously OP, why don't you save your ire for a something that actually physically harms people and actually physically attempts to take over the world?

bumbleymummy · 23/05/2016 23:23

Rufus

Sorry if I put you off. It is worth reading but some of the things she's said are pretty shocking.

Whereas this radfem idea is coming from her fear of men and wanting to have peace from it. Not the need for power/control over others.

From the utopia post, it seems that she wants women to have power/control over men.

bumbleymummy · 23/05/2016 23:28

Oops, sorry, playing catch up!

Flashbangandgone · 23/05/2016 23:33

Feminazi is generally seen as an insult, as is nazi, and understandably so...
Especially when it is used to lazily knock any feminist when all they have done is taken a strong stance on a matter promoting or protecting women.

Take Charlotte Proudman... She was termed by some a feminazi for calling out a man who leched over her on LinkedIn.... To say her actions were equivalent to the Nazis was as absurd as it was undermining....an awful insult designed to belittle those women such as her who want to be taken seriously and fight discrimination.

But witchwind... She is advocating the enslavement and dehumanising of over 3 billion people simply on the basis of the number of chromosomes they might have - not very dissimilar to choosing on the basis of their ethnicity. Now that is very nazi-esque indeed! And as it is being done in the name of women, the term femi-nazi is apt.... If the cap fits!

OP posts:
AHellOfABird · 23/05/2016 23:41

Hi Dione

I skimmed the utopia post, it's too late to read it in full now. Suffice to say I am not a separatist and I disagree with her.

One thing though, the euthanisation point wasnt of all men, it was certain males who had done severe harm, namely:.

"Major serial killers, serial torturers, pimps, pornographers, severe domestic abusers, serial rapists, genocide planners, biocide planners and pedocriminals across the world will simply be euthanised: "

I disagree with the death penalty so obviously disagree with this entire premise, but I read your original post as meaning witchwind had proposed killing all men, could well have been my confusion.

bumbleymummy · 23/05/2016 23:47

Flash, I know it's not the main point of your post - but men and women have the same number of chromosomes.

VestalVirgin · 24/05/2016 00:12

She is advocating the enslavement and dehumanising of over 3 billion people simply on the basis of the number of chromosomes they might have - not very dissimilar to choosing on the basis of their ethnicity.

As was pointed out, men have the same number of chromosomes that women have.

Also, men are disproportionately criminal and violent. Which is why witchwind wants the criminal and violent men euthanised. (Not the other ones, apparently - I trust AHellOfABird on this, haven't read the article)
There is no ethnicity that is as disproportionately violent compared to other ethnicities as men are compared to women.
So no, it is not "simply on the basis of their chromosomes".

And could you quote where she advocated enslavement? Forcing men to live in a safe distance away from women does not equal slavery.

But this talking about words is useless.

Look at the real world.

Do you have any numbers on how many men have actually been killed by feminists for political reasons? I am pretty sure the number is close to zero.
Perhaps you could find a feminist who killed a man in self-defense, or for personal revenge, or even a feminist who robbed a bank and shot some people in the process.

But if there was any actual murder committed out of a feminist motivation, I am sure it would have been all over the media. Since I never read or heard of such a thing ...

There was one woman who cut off a man's penis.It was all over the media. I am not sure if she even identified as feminist. And the penis was sewn back on, and there was no lasting damage.

And this was years ago, and everyone who accuses feminists of being evil still mentions this incident. Because there is no other one.

I am sure I could find something much, much, much worse on the internet written by a "men's rights activist". If I looked for it.
And yet, you seem utterly uninterested in how bad men make themselves look.

DioneTheDiabolist · 24/05/2016 00:35

I have often wondered if "feminists" like Witchwind are really MRAs trying to make women fear feminism, or put them off exploring it further. Because it does work. But more than that, some mainstream feminists rush to defend such nonsense on the grounds that she is a "self identifying" feminist.

I agree with a PP, it would be interesting to have Witchwind do a MN Live Web chat discussion.

Vickyyyy · 24/05/2016 01:03

Article writer is so obviously just pissed that she can't get laid.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 24/05/2016 01:37

This is my issue... A number on here think she's just some feminist with quirky yet thought provoking views that can have a positive influence on feminism

You are entitled to think that. Personally I think she has nothing worthwhile to say and is "thought provoking" in much the same way as say Niger Farage might be "thought provoking" and to be given as much credibility as he deserves.

As regards 'All PIV is rape' -- I think it isn't so much that you agree, but can you actually demolish the argument that leads to that conclusion? Just saying 'it's bonkers' repeatedly doesn't count

Yes it does actually. "Mansplaining" is apparently a terrible thing - being talked down to by demented "I know better than you" feminists like windwitch is just as bad.

I doubt though anyone is going to convince most men that a marriage without PIV sex is fine except when baby making is on the agenda unless as some religions have managed you can indoctrinate men into religious rules which require sex only then

I doubt you'd convince many heterosexual women either. Certainly not me. I find the idea that heterosexual women are too dim/ too brain washed to think of other ways of having sex unless people like her come up with theories like this which then have to be patiently explained a teeny bit patronising.

Flashbangandgone · 24/05/2016 06:29

Sorry, I meant type of chromosomes (specifically XX versus XY)... My slip doesn't change my argument in any way.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 24/05/2016 06:29

But more than that, some mainstream feminists rush to defend such nonsense on the grounds that she is a "self identifying" feminist."
Nobody has done that. Nobody.

GunnyHighway · 24/05/2016 06:31

Replace the idea of moving men to a commune away from women with moving black people away from white people.

Not a thought provoking piece anymore and she'll get convicted under anti-racism laws

Flashbangandgone · 24/05/2016 06:38

Bertrand

Not true. Vestal for instance seems to be a witchwind apologist for instance.

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread