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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

'Ladies first'

214 replies

AddToBasket · 20/05/2016 22:13

A male colleague said this to a female colleague today and I instinctively bristled.

FC: On you go
MC: No, no, you go. Ladies first. [stands back, FC passes]

Me (internal monologue) - errrr, aaaahhhhhh.

MC is generally lovely, FC was oblivious and thinking about other stuff. Neither even noticed the exchange. AIBU for being a bit bothered?

OP posts:
GlitterGlassEye · 20/05/2016 23:41

I think it's a nice gesture.

That's all.

But I don't have many people holding the door open for me with dd in a buggy. Arseholes.--

IceBeing · 20/05/2016 23:41

Ladies is used to degrade and humiliate men....because what could be more shameful and humiliating than being referred to as a lady?

While that is still the case I will be offended by being called one.

If it weren't for the existence/prevalence of the patriarchy there would be nothing wrong with the word lady...or other words like slut, whore, etc.

Alisvolatpropiis · 20/05/2016 23:42

Girls are young human females. How is that derogatory?

MariaSklodowska · 20/05/2016 23:44

I have no objection to 'Ladies first' unless it was said in a really smarmy tone...it's all about tone.

Bogeyface · 20/05/2016 23:44

its because the words are classified more by who they refer to than what type of word they are.

As I said, looking for offence where none is meant.

On what planet is girl or boy derogatory, never mind one more than the other? I can hand on heart say that I have never ever heard it to mean anything more than female human children, or in a friendly way amongst adults. In my friendship group we have "The Boys" who all grew up together and were referred to as such by their parents, so by extension we became "The Girls". No insult or offence meant or taken.

And please do not try to compare that to the N word, I suspect that my black in laws would not agree with you.

IceBeing · 20/05/2016 23:44

'stop crying like a girl'...'you throw like a girl'...'don't be such a girl about it' etc.

definitely used in a derogatory way...just like 'fag' is.

Bogeyface · 20/05/2016 23:47

Well you clearly move in very different circles to me because I havent heard "You throw like a girl" since I was in primary school 35 years ago. And "Fag" is not used to refer to anything other than a cigarette in my world!

IceBeing · 20/05/2016 23:50

I someone said up thread...it isn't the end of the world....but it would be a subtly better world if we didn't get dismissed as ladies quite so often.

This happens to me at work, basically any time there is more than 1 woman in the conversation - which doesn't happen that often....suddenly its all...oh well if the ladies are deciding......or 'well we will just leave the ladies to it....

It's definitely said to denigrate our contribution and to undermine us. I correct people every single time...sometimes to 'women' but usually to 'Doctors' as that is accurate.

beetroot2 · 20/05/2016 23:51

Poor bloke. He did something kind and courteous and you practically smacked him in the face. Ive taught my son to do this and someone like you did exactly the same to him, he was miffed and really rather upset about it.

IceBeing · 20/05/2016 23:53

Do people really think the effect is the same if you tell a boy they are acting like a girl or if you tell a girl they are acting like a boy?

To people think a woman being told they are 'one of the lads' reacts the same way to a man being told they are 'one of the ladies'?

Original poster
AddToBasket · 20/05/2016 23:54

To be crystal clear, I definitely did not smack him in the face.

OP posts:
IceBeing · 20/05/2016 23:55

smacked him in the face hahaha....actually I heard she pushed him out a window...I mean when you are making shit up why go half hearted!

The OP isn't complaining about people holding the door open for each other...she is complaining about the phrase 'ladies first' which is indeed loaded and arrives with all sorts of misogynistic baggage.

MistressoftheYoniverse · 20/05/2016 23:57

does not upset me at all...makes me think good manners..knows his role..Grin...I don't understand how people get upset by polite behaviour ... must be old fashioned...Hmm

Bogeyface · 20/05/2016 23:57

Or it was just something he was brought up to say in the belief that it was polite.

The misogynisitc baggage does not come from him in this instance.

MistressoftheYoniverse · 21/05/2016 00:04

Why is being a 'lady' more loaded than being a 'gentleman'...both expectations most cannot fulfill Grin...methinks some take a complement as an attack...I don't

Italiangreyhound · 21/05/2016 03:25

YABU. never say ladies first, but then I also never say 'on you go' !!

I can see your point but, personally, I'd rather put energy into making spaces safer for women and girls, don't mind who goes through the door first.

steff13 · 21/05/2016 03:41

I'd rather be called a lady than a female, as though I'm some sort of animal.

VioletBam · 21/05/2016 04:09

Doesn't bother me. I might say "Age before beauty" if I really didn't want to do as I was told and go first.

Sometimes, if I think someone's getting me to say go up a set of stairs first, I won't because I think they want to look at my arse.

So I insist.

Janecc · 21/05/2016 05:38

I dislike the word woman because it means wife of a man wo man. I prefer lady even though around 300 years ago, it was restricted to gentry because its' meaning is derived from a loaf of bread, as is the word lord. Bread is gender neutral in English.

I teach DD lady and do not consider it old fashioned. Imo a child calling an adult a lady is a sign of respect and wouldn't want her to say "you know mummy, the woman who said X".

Dh and I are both equals and I'm happy with a bit of chivalry here and there. And yes, I understand letting a lady go down the stairs first is incorrect as the gentleman should go first in case the lady trips so he can break her fall. Mmm maybe checking out your arse whoever posted that one. 😉

Ahhh "ladies first". The world of chivalry is not dead. As long as I can vote, have my own bank account, own possessions in my own right, am treated as equal by my dh, the world is a good place for me. We are talking here about first world gripes and preferences.

araiba · 21/05/2016 06:30

threads like this are what misogynists use to show that feminists are barking mad

VioletBam · 21/05/2016 06:40

Araiba so should we all shut up then? Hmm What a crock.

Comments like yours are what feminists use to show other feminists how sexism has infected us.

nooka · 21/05/2016 06:43

I don't like the implications of 'chivalry' because it's not a game I'm allowed to play, being exclusively courtesy from men to women. So a bit othering. Politeness on the other hand is always welcome. I like to open door for others, let them go first etc, and it annoys me when some men refuse to accept my politeness because somehow it's wrong to allow women to be courteous to men. Plus in my experience men who do this sort of thing can be quite sexist. They may mean well, but I prefer to be treated as a fellow human rather than some sort of delicate flower. So I'd bristle too.

sharknad0 · 21/05/2016 06:51

and you wonder why men are now reluctant to give up their seats in public transport!

TheVillagePost · 21/05/2016 06:59

I think old fashioned chivalry is lovely, and to be honest if a man doesn't practice it then I judge them and find them lacking. If a man walks through a door ahead of me I think they're not very classy at all and a bit of a nob. 2 men once barged at me through a service station door forcing me to leap out the way when I was heavily pregnant. I was horrified at their lack of good manners. I'll definitely be teaching DS to behave like a gentleman. My tiny Grandpa used to rush round to hand my mum out the car, which used to infuriate her, but was from the most sweet and chivalrous of motives. It's a nice thing.

sashh · 21/05/2016 06:59

My standard reply is 'pearls before swine'