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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think that DH - a teacher - could take a day off work?

460 replies

BackAche21 · 28/04/2016 12:46

I have been a SAHM for 2 yrs after redundancy and now I have got myself a job interview, which happens to fall on the day that DS (4) has an allergy challenge in hospital. DH says he can't take the day off teaching as his Y12s are close to AS exams, and he is head of department so it looks bad, plus notoriously stingy Headteacher may not give permission. But aside from permission (there were sickies in my day) he doesn't even want to ask. I don't know what solution he thinks is possible.

I am already asking the hospital if they can change the date - but we've already changed it once owing to DS being unwell - and they might not let us change it again. It won't be an option to ask potential employer to change the date as they have a whole load of obstacles lined up for candidates on the day, involving meeting other people too.

IMHO it puts me in an impossible situation as I don't think anyone other than a parent can really do the hospital gig, and our family needs me to get a job. before redundancy all sick children etc fell to me to take time off work, and I feel like he's just staking this ground again - his teaching time is untouchable. Makes me mad, but AIBU?

OP posts:
80schild · 30/04/2016 14:22

At the end of the day, it is one day out of his life. As for his yr 12s - if they are putting the work in, they will still get As and missing one lesson is not going to hurt their grades. I think he needs to ask.

mirime · 30/04/2016 16:03

On rearranging the job interview - my employer is completely reasonable, and time off for an appointment or having to rearrange days during the probationary period would be absolutely fine. When we advertise a job the interview date is in the advert and we can't change it if people can't make it - there is a section where all candidates work as a group, plus the day will have been chosen so that the panel can have service users, staff members and management committee members.

Sometimes however good a candidate is, however good the employer is interview dates can't be changed.

And last time I cancelled a hospital appointment I had to be re-referred by my GP three times as the hospital kept cancelling the referral, which meant about five GP visits in all. Luckily, as I've said, I have an understanding employer.

CalleighDoodle · 30/04/2016 20:32

fleck my first guess would be the date was significant to the couple. My second guess woul be the honeymoon would be significantly cheaper.

Fleck · 30/04/2016 21:41

I would go with your second guess! Expensive holidays is something you do just have to lump, even for your honeymoon.

DarkRoots · 01/05/2016 08:28

Regarding 'who pays?', there (as ever) is a process in place. Some schools employ a cover supervisor. But all schools should have a budget allocated for cover. Managing the budget is the head teacher's job - any head without a budget for cover would be seriously financially mismanaging the situation. The third option (for absences due to favours, etc) is internal cover where you ask colleagues a favour for something that you aren't entitled to time off for. Allowing this is at the discretion of the head.

Teachers get sick, need to meet with social services, need to do job interviews, break their legs, get stuck in a snow drift, have funerals of loved ones to attend and so on and so on. And even have important hospital appointments. These absences are inevitable and have to be covered by the budget.

Of course, budgets are being slashed for schools at a frightening rate, and head teachers are trying to economise everywhere. Cover budgets is an obvious one to address. I understand why heads are reminding teachers that absences cost money to the school.

However: teachers also take time off with stress and depression, fatigue-related illness and so on. Or when they are interviewing frantically for jobs elsewhere, or throwing sickies to be able to actually manage their lives. These will end up being paid for from an emergency cover budget as well, but any good leadership should take all steps available to them to minimise these absences through developing a healthy environment to work in, just like any other business. And schools ARE a business, and an employer. Our profits are results and well-nurtured students, but it is still a business nonetheless.

Like a majority of employees who work in vocational jobs, most teachers go way beyond what their job requires them (and pays them) to do. For this, our county is lucky. However, encouraging this culture where teachers do not believe they are entitled to time off for things they are legally entitled to have time off for is a short-sighted nonsense which creates resentful teachers and wary parents. No-one wins.

I am very thankful that my GP squeezed my DD in for an emergency appointment between surgeries because I was worried. I know this was his lunch-time, or admin time, and that he did not have to do it. That was a favour and is over and above what's expected. It is much appreciated. Ditto the midwife who stayed late on her shift to deliver DD, the home help who popped out on her day off to see my DG, etc etc. I am glad to say that I could go on and on. These people are doing vocational jobs. And yet! I would expect a locum GP, my midwife to be changed, etc if their child was in hospital or their spouse was ill or they were at their DM's funeral. It happens and we have systems in place to provide for it. Use those systems or we lose them, and then it really is an impossible job where the most vulnerable suffer.

Anyway - enough of my essay! Your DH is experienced and established enough to man up and ask his HT for a day off. Again, I suspect this is not really the issue.

Hope the allergy challenge goes well.

Fleck · 01/05/2016 11:20

Nicely put DarkRoots!

DarkRoots · 01/05/2016 15:41

Am thinking of running for Education Minister, Fleck Grin

MrsGuyOfGisbo · 01/05/2016 16:29

Unforeseen emergencies are one thing - of course they will be covered.
Planned absences are another matter.
I know only too well the systems in place for cover, as I am a supply teacher and so meet and talk to lots of Cover Managers, whose task it is to allocate teachers to classes in emergencies.
The simple fact is that regardless of 'rearranging revision sessions', 'extra sessions on bank Holiday' etc, timetabled classes need a teacher to supervise them.
Ad-hoc swaps are in most schools now prohibited, for the simple reason that the CM needs to rely on the fact that a teacher with a free period can be used to cover an absence - if that person has done an informal swap with another it throws out the algorithm , as the person is shown as being available to cover...
In that case the Cover manager would over rule the informal arrangement.
In indies, it is simpler as staff have fewer timetable teaching periods, and so are more able to cover absences.
If I were minister Grin I would reduce the number of timetabled periods for teachers precisely for this reason, and increase the number of working weeks as a quid pro quo..
However, this would be unpopular with teachers, so thjy have to suck up the no time off except for unforeseen emergenices in term time rules.

TendonQueen · 01/05/2016 18:45

Darkroots I really wish you would! You'd have lots of support for such sensible thinking Smile

DarkRoots · 01/05/2016 20:28

Ah, but would I get time off for my child's hospitals appointments? That is the question Wink

Fleck · 01/05/2016 20:29

Go for it DarkRoots! Smile

DarkRoots · 01/05/2016 23:01

Imagine all the post it notes and board markers you could get on expenses! And term time holidays. Tempting.

Let us know what happens, OP.

manicinsomniac · 02/05/2016 00:23

I'm really shocked at how impossible it seems to be for some teachers to get time off. Teachers are human beings with lives. Things happen in term time. There should be provision for that, Of course a job is important but by giving just a little leeway an employer will get so much more back in return.

At my school we can have paid leave to be ill, look after children or elderly parents who are ill, go to appointments, take dependents to appointments, go to funerals and weddings, travel to see relatives who are giving birth or dying, go to sports or performance events our kids are in if possible .etc. I'm a single parent of 3 and full time teacher and find my head to be fantastic, providing we don't take the piss.

That might be annoying to some parents. But there has never, in the 10 years I've been teaching there, been a teacher off on long term sick with stress, depression or a bad back. No colleague has ever left the school for anything other than another teaching job or to retire (ie nobody has left the profession or burned out). And I am by no means the longest serving member of staff there. Around the middle in fact. A few have done 20+ years.

I can't believe those last two paragraphs are unrelated. I bet the schools with high staff furnovers and high incidences of break down, career change and long term sick leave are the same schools that are denying all requests for term time leave.

OP - changing the hospital apt would be my first choice. But after that, I would absolutely expect your DH to take leave.

YonicTrowel · 02/05/2016 07:20

You are right, manic, it's crazy. The options under the law for the DH are either to book a week of unpaid parental leave covering the appointment or to pretend that it was an emergency for which he needed unpaid dependants leave (ie pretend his wife couldn't do it at the last minute, I suppose).

Both of these options seem a lot worse for his employer and pupils than planning in cover and an unpaid single day off!

MrsGuyOfGisbo · 02/05/2016 10:40

Not only teachers tho' it is a fact of having DC that you need to make contingency plans for their care, and understanding the reasons for the difference in employers' provision for cover in an emergency and for a planned absence.

AngieBolen · 02/05/2016 10:45

So what does your DH suggest?

I would change the hospital apt.

TooLazyToWriteMyOwnFuckinPiece · 02/05/2016 11:01

What contingency plans would you suggest mrsguy?

MrsGuyOfGisbo · 02/05/2016 12:09

You plan your appointments at time when they can be taken ie school holidays.. If you can't do that, then one person has to have a job where annual leave can be take at time outside school holidays.
Or pay for private medical care.

BoffinMum · 02/05/2016 12:16

MrsGuy, that's not always possible or realistic, and not all forms of healthcare are available privately in the UK, or cover this kind of diagnostic procedure. And I think expecting people to fly to the US or whatever in their holidays just to avoid a few hours away from a job is a bit unreasonable for people on £30k-£40k (out of country diagnostics would not be covered by private healthcare).

YonicTrowel · 02/05/2016 12:23

Again, MrsGuy, for more than a decade, this man has had that cover, that contingency, from his wife. And he may well have it going forward as she will have annual leave from this new job.

She has an immovable commitment. That happens to be an interview, but might be a funeral or a visit to a sick parent. Should no one work in a school if they have a spouse with any other life but being their "contingency"? I suspect that teaching would be quickly undersubscribed if that question was asked at interview.

TooLazyToWriteMyOwnFuckinPiece · 02/05/2016 12:44

Mrsguy frankly you sound insane.!

YonicTrowel · 02/05/2016 12:50

Paying the difference, if any, between the saving the school makes on an unpaid leave day and a supply teacher, would be a lot cheaper than a private health insurance policy for year upon year to cover this one instance when the primary carer is unavailable.

HuckleberryGin · 02/05/2016 14:17

The school wouldn't let me have a day off even when I offered to pay for cover. Same for a course where the exam board paid the cover. I'm out of teaching now, thank goodness. 12 years I did it. I missed weddings, funerals, dc's medical appointments, sport's days, assemblies, first day of school etc.

The climate in most schools now is a one of toxic fear. Even asking could get you marked out.

I still work closely with teachers and I know of teachers being turned down time off to attend a terminally ill partner's medical appointment, refusal of a phased return after the death of a child

clam · 02/05/2016 14:54

And they're wondering why so many teachers are leaving the profession?
See, I don't recognise any of this, but I'm beginning to realise that I must have a gem of a Head Teacher. Her view is, if we don't look after each other, then we're stuffed. She's very appreciative of any extra-curricular things we do, and will do her best to provide cover if we need it for anything in return.

Atenco · 02/05/2016 16:39

The climate in most schools now is a one of toxic fear. Even asking could get you marked out.

This is one of the reasons for bullying in schools, IMHO. I taught in private primary schools as a substitute teacher many years ago. One school I taught in had some nasty bullying among the children and the HT was a bitch. Another school where I taught the children were lovely and caring as so was the HT. On that basis I chose my dd's school on the kindness of the HT and I never regretted it.

Where are the teachers' unions in all this?