To think if you want to get rid of David Cameron, vote Leave.

[NotnowNigel]

Ken Clarke has said that "David Cameron won't last 30 seconds if the country votes leave".

That will plunge the Tories into civil war in the party. George will probably take over et voila!

George will never win an election. He has all the charisma of a blocked sink.

I'm on the fence. I do feel there is a little too much interference in how we run things, but on balance I think EU membership has been a good thing for us. I believe that it's easier to fix things from the inside out - and I am also conscious that GB has a unique position (re: the Euro) which if renounced can never be reclaimed.

I also work in an industry where Brexit is likely to have a significant impact to jobs - many of the companies I deal with are HQ in London and I know that most of them have a 'plan B' in terms of relocating if we leave the EU. Relocation will mean job losses; it's unlikely to impact me directly but I know lots of people who are quietly worried about their job security.

There are also selfish things - EU scrapping roaming charges, freedom of movement, reciprocal healthcare etc.

However I am trying to think about this from beyond my own wants and needs. I don't have any children but I do have nieces and nephews - so I am trying to consider what the impact to them will be in years to come. I am tending towards voting 'remain' because I think it will be better for them in the long run. They already have a ticking time bomb in their lap - house prices, pensions, zero hours contracts, tuition fees - so it really feels wrong to remove something where we actually have a benefit. I worry about the generation growing up now; they are going to find it more difficult in so many ways to access a lot of the things that my generation (the last one to truly have access to these things) took for granted - free education, reasonable house prices, zero hours contracts hadn't been heard of.

Whatever my vote is, I'll be deciding on the basis of the EU issues. Not what political party is currently in government in the UK - this issue is far bigger than that.

JUST BECAUSE I CHOSE TO USE UPPER CASE LETTERS DOES NOT MEAN I DO NOT KNOW WHERE THE CAP LOCK IS. THE FORUM IS TO EXPLORE ONES IDEAS

????

500 BC IS OVER 2500 YEARS AGO

Yes, but BC means "before Christ".

She might be on to something. Jeremy Corbyn. Jean-Claude.
Suspicious number of JCs involved.
Hmmm

I agree. I must admit I am new to MUMSNET. Just learning to familiarise wit the different sections.

Please vote on whether you think remaining in the EU is a good thing and not on whether you like David Cameron. Like he said during the Scots referendum, it's not about giving the Tories a bloody nose.

Here are a few things to consider when making your mind:

Scottish independence will happen if we leave the EU
Status of Gibraltar - Spain make life hard enough as it is and have said they will close the border which means lots of people who cross the border in both directions will lose their jobs - a mini virtual Berlin Wall.

EU people living in the UK, will they have to go home and how will that affect services mainly staffed by them?
UK people living in the EU, apparently some people are already moving back to the UK, mainly retired - so increasing burden on NHS
Northern Ireland/Ireland border issues
Where does our food come from? How will trade agreements generally be affected?
France supplies the Channel Islands with electricity - they're not in the EU but might be affected and I think the mainland gets some from France too
We get some gas from the Netherlands via an interconnector
We're probably ok for water (plenty of rainfall!)
What will happen to visa-free travel in Europe. We're not in Schengen but only need a passport. Will it be easy to have holidays in say Spain or Germany?
Will companies move their HQs - they could eg move to Ireland, English-speaking, same time zone, EU member
What would happen to UK students wanting to study in Europe eg for language degrees
The contribution to the EU would not find its way to the NHS - the Tories would use to reduce taxes for big business (and probably to pay out more in welfare if the economy takes a dive).

I am really struggling to find a single positive of leaving (other than getting stamps on one's passport again - that's if they let you in at all though). Oh, lawyers will make lots of money sorting out the mess.

I've just cancelled a hotel booking in continental Europe for August today. I've decided to wait for the outcome of the EU referendum before I rebook. That's how worried I am about a vote to leave (which sadly I think will happen if only because the Leavers will make sure they get and vote). If you vote to stay, nothing will change. If you vote to leave, many hundreds of thousands of lives will be adversely affected.

Purple I think most of what you predict is hysterical tbh. Prior to the EU we managed to travel around the continent, have language students too and fro etc.
I can't imagine we will find power companies refusing perfectly good business.
Gibraltar might suffer, yes but they are a relatively small group. Scotland might try for another referendum but I think people will be concerned about oil prices this time.

Think which politicians and parties want Brexit - do you normally support them ?
Brexit has been pushed for decades by the right wing of the Tory Party - people like IDS - and by anti-immigrant parties like UKIP, BNP, EDL. Only a few politicians on the left support Brexit.

Cameron is a Eurosceptic, but has always been hated by the fanatical right wing of his party for not supporting Brexit. He said he'd leave before the next election whatever the result. So, he's dumped anyway.

Rupert Murdoch has always pushed for Brexit because: "When I call a British PM, he listens to me; when I call the European President he doesn't"

You want to vote Brexit because you hate Cameron. On that logic so you want to vote for IDS, Boris, Farage, Nick Griffin, Rulert Murdoch ?

On saner grounds, consider why the pound has reached a 9-year low due to fears of what Brexit would do to our economy.

Hovercraft it isn't 'alright' as you say. But tbh Gibraltar doesn't really come in to most people's decision making on this. What's the population? Thirty K? What's that as % of the mainland population? Of the expat community in Spain?

EU referendum: PM should stay if UK backs Brexit, ministers say

Ken Clarke suggested the PM "wouldn't last 30 seconds if he lost the referendum", but now Chris Grayling and Theresa Villiers are saying that after a Brexit, Cameron should stay on as PM to lead negotiations.

OP I think you sound unhinged.

David Cameron is the democratically elected prime minister. I assume you didn't vote for him/his party but you must accept that we, as a nation of civilised people each entitled to one fair vote, elected him and his party.

To try and renege on democratic process in any way you can (ie brexit, because it's there and available) strikes me as only slightly better than things going on in less "civilised" nations where they undemocratically try to remove a democratically elected leader with force or dirty tricks.

If you want to leave the EU, then vote to leave the EU.
If you want to stay in the EU, then vote to stay in the EU.
But whatever you do, don't be dishonest or try to undo democracy. It stinks and doesn't belong a civilised society. We have democratic processes and laws to get rid of politicians who are corrupt or incompetent if it's necessary.

Just as a note in case you think I am in some way biased, I actually don't know whether to vote to stay or to leave. And my politics are neither right nor left. I like people who are central, reasonable and approach each issue separately with an open mind.

Nothing undemocratic about the Torys offering a referendum solely to keep wavering UKIPers on side and then using all the extra persuasive power and resource of being in government to campaign against Brexit then?

(Contrast with Labour who lost numerous votes and seats because of the UKIP effect having not offered a referendum).

Newsnight, with a debate on the EU and the economy - just started on BBC2

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b078c9g6