To think if you want to get rid of David Cameron, vote Leave.

[NotnowNigel]

Ken Clarke has said that "David Cameron won't last 30 seconds if the country votes leave".

That will plunge the Tories into civil war in the party. George will probably take over et voila!

George will never win an election. He has all the charisma of a blocked sink.

YABU Totally. Cameron the pig lover won't last long.

But retreat from Europe will be forever and will be utterly disastrous for the UK.

Why would anyone think it was a good idea that we could vote out MEPs who represent other countries?

That isn't what I said. I'm pointing out that we have little say in the EU, as Britain is only one of 28 countries represented there (and set to rise). Yes of course each country should pick its own MEPs, but I think the EU system is wrong in the first place. MEPs can't even propose or repeal legislation, that's done by the unelected Commission. Then secret trilogues are often held, before the legislation is rubber-stamped. The UK is routinely outvoted and Cameron's recent attempts at change may still be rejected.

People in the UK can only vote in one constituency - you can't vote out an MP in a neighbouring constituency even if s/he is utterly incompetent. It's up to local voters

If the tide of public opinion moves far enough, you get a different government with a different party in power, as chosen by the British people. You may not particularly like your own MP, but statistically, most (no, not all) people who took the time to vote will see at Westminster a lot of MPs from a UK party that they support.

first past the post system makes it surprisingly difficult to unseat bad MPs.

If enough people choose to vote for a party in favour of proportional representation (Lib Dem), this would change.

How often will the UK have the chance to leave the EU? It's decades since the last referendum. If we remain, Brussels will continue to systematically remove control and powers from here to there. Already EU laws override British laws. 23rd June is escape day.

Christ on a bike. Cameron's already said he won't stand for a third term, so that's what, 4 years max? Vs leaving the EU forever?

That is incredibly petty and shortsighted.

Vote Leave if you think we should leave the EU.

If you think we should stay in the EU, vote Stay.

If you don't know, go read something and find out.

Do not waste your vote.

Cameron's already said he won't stand for a third term, so that's what, 4 years max? Vs leaving the EU forever?

We could vote the Tories out and leave the EU

Much of the "received wisdom" about how European institutions work is basically just ignorance

Is it ignorant to say the EU is another layer of Bureaucracy?

I am not a fan of being strangled by Bureaucracy and less so by powers over which I have little control.

I worry that leaving would open a massive can of worms (economic, commercial and financial) from which we would struggle to recover for a very long time

So you don't worry about the low paid and vulnerable members of our society???? If we leave the EU they will loose all of their human rights.

I dislike Cameron and all his Tory cohorts with a passion but my vote in this referendum is not party based it is my own personal choice.

As for the those who say that they are Labour supporters but have no confidence in Jeremy Corbyn.... stop being two faced and leave the party.... He was voted by the membership, not by the Blairites. The membership numbers have kept going up since he is leader.......

Take a look at the Tory promises in the Conservative Manifesto 2015

Some quotes:

"reform the workings of the EU which is too big, too bossy and too bureaucratic"

"reclaim power from Brussels on your behalf"

"back businesses to create jobs in Britain by completing ambitious trade deals and reducing red tape"

"The EU is too bureaucratic and too undemocratic. It interferes too much in our daily lives, and the scale of migration triggered by new members joining in recent years has had a real impact on local communities"

" Yes to a family of nation states, all part of a European Union – but whose interests, crucially, are guaranteed whether inside the Euro or out
No to 'ever closer union'.
No to a constant flow of power to Brussels
No to unnecessary interference
And no, of course, to the Euro, to participation in Eurozone bail-outs or notions like a European Army"

"we will negotiate a new settlement for Britain in Europe, and then ask the British people whether they want to stay in the EU"

"We want to see powers flowing away from Brussels, not to it"

"we will continue to ensure that defence policy remains firmly under British national control, maintaining NATO and the transatlantic relationship as the cornerstones of our defence and security policy"

"We want to ensure that new rules target unscrupulous behaviour in the financial services industry"

"We will continue to promote the golden thread of democracy, the rule of law, property rights, a free media and open, accountable institutions"

As for the those who say that they are Labour supporters but have no confidence in Jeremy Corbyn.... stop being two faced and leave the party.... He was voted by the membership, not by the Blairites. The membership numbers have kept going up since he is leader.......

Seriously, piss right off. He was also voted in by people who had no interest in the futire of the party, but only paid three quid.
How dare you fucking tell me to leave the party.

Seriously, piss right off. He was also voted in by people who had no interest in the futire of the party, but only paid three quid.How dare you fucking tell me to leave the party.

Oh dear were you born rude or have you worked really hard to be so rude???

I don't think I was commanding you to leave the party I was voicing my opinion in a polite way.

Oh dear were you born rude or have you worked really hard to be so rude???

I don't think I was commanding you to leave the party I was voicing my opinion in a polite way.

Like fuck you were.
'Stop being two faced and leave the party?'

Like fuck you were.
'Stop being two faced and leave the party?'

I am sorry you have taken it in that way maybe if I had put "I think they should" in front of "stop being two faced and leave the party" then maybe you would have understood my meaning.

But that put aside the aggression you have shown in my opinion was not warranted and could have been worded in a more polite manner.

However you phrase it, it's not your business to conduct purges of those who see Corbyn as a liability.

So you don't worry about the low paid and vulnerable members of our society???? If we leave the EU they will loose all of their human rights

Don't be ridiculous!

CockacidalManiac

There is a difference between business and opinion.

Thank you for not being so aggressive this time.

You're the one that appointed yourself as Momentum's Witchfinder General, not me.

Oh dear!

You can't expect to tell people to leave the party because you disagree with them, and not be strongly challenged on that. You started the 'rudeness', not me.

Workers' rights in this country were mostly won by the trade union movement, not by the diktat of the EU.

Please, please, please don't do this. Don't take us out of the EU - probably forever - in an attempt to get rid of one Tory, who will only be replaced by another one anyway.

Trade unions in which country cockacidal?

"Workers' rights in this country were mostly won by the trade union movement, not by the diktat of the EU."

Trade unions in the UK have lost much of their power. Most recent workers' rights have come from the EU. From the TUC:

The EU-derived rights outlined in the report include:

The right to 20 days' paid annual leave a year.
The right to not be forced to work longer than 48 hours a week on average.
The right to paid time off for antenatal appointments; and protections for pregnant women and new mothers in the workplace.
The right to up to 18 weeks' parental leave per child and to time off for urgent family reasons.
The right to equal pay for work of equal value between men and women.
The right to equal treatment for part-time, fixed-term and agency workers with other employees.
The right for workers' representatives to be informed and consulted on significant changes that could affect jobs.
The right to high standards of health and safety at work.
Protections for workers affected by outsourcing or business buy-outs.
Protections from discrimination in the workplace on grounds of sexual orientation, gender reassignment, age, and religion or belief.

• Millions of workers have benefited from the EU-derived workplace rights covered in the report. Examples include:

Six million workers gained new or enhanced rights to paid holidays (two million of whom had previously had no paid annual leave.)
Around 400,000 part-time workers, most of them women, gained improved pay and conditions when equal treatment rights were introduced.
Landmark legal cases with far reaching effects for other workers have resulted from women becoming able to challenge unequal pay in workplaces where men and women were concentrated in different kinds of jobs.
Some agency workers received a pay rise and improved holiday entitlements; and many workers on fixed-term contracts gained greater job security as a result of EU legislation.

• The government has sought to diminish workers’ rights. For example, in 2012 the qualifying period for unfair dismissal rights was increased from one to two years, along with new caps on compensation. And in 2013, much higher fees were imposed on workers seeking to enforce their rights at employment tribunals.

The U.K, mostly. We had a lot of enshrined right before joining the EEC. Now not so many; increased casualisation of labour, zero hours contracts etc. Membership of the EU hasn't helped stop the erosion.
The EU might protect some rights, but at the moment it's a neo-liberal club.
That's not to say that I'm advocating Brexit. I still haven't decided. Let's not pretend that the EU in its current form is a friend of the working man or woman.

TTIP

What really makes me mad about this referendum is that the future of tbe whole country for the next several generations is being put on the line because of internal Tory infighting over Europe. pigfucker Cameron isn't strong enough to override the anti-European little Englanders in his party.

So an internal Tory tiff is taking the whole country to the edge of disaster.