To worry about making friends in London? And people's notions about Americans?

[Begentleimnewhere]

We are preparing to move to London from the U.S. as a result of my DH's job transfer. I've been so always loved London and my kids are little enough that they won't complain (6 and 4). My DH has committed to stay for at least 3 years, but if all goes well it could be a lot longer. His company is paying for private school and giving us a generous housing allowance, and a bunch of other financial incentives, and equalizing the taxes to what they are here, so we will probably have a higher standard of living in London than we do here, even though it is so expensive there. We've found a nice flat and narrowed the schools down to a few choices that have space for my older DC.

Last night I spoke to a friend of a friend who recently returned from living in London for a few years under similar circumstances. I've met this woman several times and as far as I can tell she is friendly, smart, and fun. I was looking forward to getting some tips from her, but to be honest she kind of took the wind out of my sails. She ultimately enjoyed her experience but she said it was very, very hard for her to make friends. She met lots of moms at her kids' schools, neighbors, etc., and they were all pleasant and polite, but nobody was receptive to her efforts at getting to know them. This woman is a bit outspoken, but not inappropriately so, although I wonder if the line of appropriateness might be different over there. She ended up making most of her friends through clubs and activities geared toward other expats.

I'm a bit more shy than this woman, though still not what you'd call an introvert. I will be leaving behind a great group of "mom friends" from my DC's preschool, and they are a big part of making life as a stay-at-home mom bearable. Obviously it took time to build these friendships and I know I can't instantly recreate what I have here, but I also know I won't be happy alone with my kids all day every day for 3 years.

So be brutally honest: what should I be expecting as an American mom moving to London? (Speaking in huge generalizations, obviously.) I'm not expecting a welcome party, but will I eventually be able to make real friends and feel like a normal person? I know there are plenty of Americans in London and they all seem to love it so I'm hoping it can't be that hard.

Also should I be worried about fitting in with the other parents at an expensive "pre-prep" school? I'm told we won't get DC into a decent state school mid-year and the international schools that have space aren't convenient to my DH's office. Where we live now the public schools are excellent and even wealthy people usually use them. We are reasonably comfortable financially, but TBH it would be a big stretch to afford the flat and school if DH's company wasn't paying. I'm a normal mid-30s mom who is still carrying a bit of baby weight and wears yoga pants a bit more than I should. I make an effort to dress nicely --when I'm not too frazzled-- but I am far from a fashionista. Am I going to feel poor and frumpy next to the posh private school mums?

Is there anything I should specifically try NOT to do in order to avoid fulfilling negative stereotypes about Americans? I won't throw any baby showers but that's about all I've gleaned from MN so far.

Sorry this message was so long, I hope at least a few people actually read it. Thanks very much!

loving the little dust up over Essex going on in the corner

I know Merrymouse. I'm going to refrain from it. Except that Barking and Dagenham is Essex, not London even though it's a London borough.

Oh fuck, look what you made me do

Anyway, OP I lurked on this thread because I'm nosy and wanted to know where you were planning to live. Fulham is good. I live near there. I'm originally from Essex, btw.

I do always notice when Americans say: 'Thank you so much' but realise it's just their way of saying thank you and it's much better than nothing.

I marvelled the other week when I was trying to phone a woman in Florida for work and kept missing her and getting her kids. They kept calling me Ma'am

When I finally got to speak to her, she called me Ma'am too .

There was no need for this. I'm not royalty or law enforcement. Just manners where they're from, I suppose guess.

God yes. Do not be rude about the NHS.

It is a tenant of belief for most people. Like slagging off the US constitution as outmoded and not fit for a modern society or something, you will offend.

Do not be lulled into a false sense of security if we slagging it off. We are allowed. To give another analogy, it's like being rude about our annoying sister -we are allowed to bitch about her, but if you do we'll kill you

On the other hand try not to miss the joys of $10,000 for dental treatment that a family member has just had to pay out and thus cancel their vacation as they cannot afford both.

In Rome, this was said by an American lady: "Godamn these cobbles, haven't they heard of tarmaccadum"

I've said similar things, having ruined plenty of heels in Rome. If it was said, I'm sure it was a joke. I've heard that some Americans do them. I've even heard a rumour that some of them even manage to make a reasonable living at it...

I've occasionally asked people to repeat what they've said, but replace "Americans" with "Indians" or "Nigerians" or "women", and this has resulted in some interesting apologies.

Which is a false analogy.

The other three groups have suffered systematic discrimination and have been marginalised. The USA are not an oppressed minority, they are a dominant global and economic force.

Teach your husband to say 'chiz mate' to taxi drivers when paying the fare plus tip.

It's what all middle class London men say to cabbies and men who come round to fix the boiler.

I think libraries brings up and interesting point. Almost all the Americans I know don't see the constitution or anything for that matter as sacred. We are willing to openly criticise anything including the constitution (gun laws anyone?). If it isn't working,
It isn't working. The end. Speaking in huge general statements, the Brits are easier to offend. But bear in mind mumsnet is nothing like real life. I find Brits are far more aggressive online than in real life while the opposite is true of Americans.

We are willing to openly criticise anything including the constitution (gun laws anyone?).

I didn't mean an aspect of the constitution - like the 2nd amendment. I meant the entire thing. the concept of having one written down . That said, I was struggling for a good example - I was going to say it was like slagging of American football to a fan.

Well yes, I know what macadam is, it's just not a word I've heard used ever. So I wonder about the Rome story.

"Jokes", limited? I don't understand.

cheerful
When I was little and would go over for my long visit, family members proudly took me to see which of the back dirt roads had been "macadamed" since I was last over.
It was daily usage, and in the local paper and radio

and as for jokes, getting Mornington Crescent past even my most Anglicised family is a total fail

'I've occasionally asked people to repeat what they've said, but replace "Americans" with "Indians" or "Nigerians" or "women", and this has resulted in some interesting apologies.

Which is a false analogy.

The other three groups have suffered systematic discrimination and have been marginalised. The USA are not an oppressed minority, they are a dominant global and economic force.'

Oh, OK, ComposHatComesBack, so then it is perfectly fine to say rude and insulting things to any person you encounter who happens to be from that country? Really?

DH is distantly related to the man who invented macadam. On our last trip to Scotland, we had to make a special visit to Ayr to see his birthplace.

Knowing how the London Underground works is essential: Stand on the right on the escalators - the left is for walking / running. Have your ticket(s) ready before you reach the gates - I know it sounds obvious but you'd be surprised how many people get there and then start fumbling.
Only travel during rush hour if you have to - the stations will be full of people moving very fast on autopilot and the tubes will be packed.

Having said all that, people will be helpful. We still offer seats, give directions and help carry buggies in rush hour. But it's not somewhere to be if you don't have to.

empress
the New York Subway is worse
seneca
when I'm in NY I go see the bits named after my family

begentle
In London, nothing under 500 years is old

Ah you'll love London, it's the sort of place that you'll fall in love with before you realise it.

Public transport is second to none and there is so much to do. Just be patient when trying to meet new people, there will be people out there for you. But as a northerner that moved to London, I can say that there is a definate bit of patience that is required for it all.

What else, offer cups of tea to visitors, say the NHS is amazing and always have an opinion about the weather.

Talk She'll be fine then!

Cat it's never in good taste to insult someone because of their nationality except the French. But Americans are simply not a marginalised group, quite the opposite, so you can't reasonably compare them to ethnic minorities. It is more acceptable (less unacceptable?) to criticise Americans than any of the groups you've mentioned above.

Of course the main thing about Fulham is that Fulham Broadway tube station is on the District Line which ends in Essex. (Or starts, depending on your point of view!)

If you're a SAHM you might want to factor this in to schools that you choose. If most have parents that both work then you're not going to make friends easily. If there are plenty of SAHMs it will be much easier. That might mean living in a slightly less exclusive area. My friends in London lived in Battersea and were able to afford to be SAHMs and certainly seemed to have a wide social circle.

With young DC if you invite someone over for a play date mum tends to come too so you can have a chat and get to know her too. You will have to offer a fair few times but people will then invite you back. You might also need to be 'the one' that suggests a group trip to a local park with a picnic etc in the hols. Helps to build up a group of friends. This applies to everyone native or not! (Despite growing up and now living in Manchester my friends are not those I went to school with but those I met at nursery and the school gate 15 years ago).

As regards being American I can't see it really being a problem. English is your first language and we're used to hearing American accents on TV so we can understand what you're saying! We have Canadians and Aussies in our circle and they're treated just like anyone else except they have better hols.

Whatever you do dont call football 'soccer'!

If you want to have any understanding about British behaviour you have to read Kate Fox's book 'watching the english'. It is excellent.

Cat I actually get what you're saying. I have had a lot of comments about my accent and have often wondered if I said a similar version of such things to a person here (in the East London Essex hinterland ) how it would go down. However overall I think Americans are much more easily offended than Brits in certain situations. Or maybe see things as a criticism when it's not intended as one. You're allowed to disagree with people here and it's not seen as rude or confrontational the way it might well be in the U.S. It's a myth that Americans are direct IME unless it's around advice giving, in which case they don't shut up. Why wouldn't you want to hear my views on how to cut your lawn, how to hang your curtains and all manner of other things I didn't ask for your observations on and BTW won't be actioning immediately. So don't be offended...!

I love living in central London.

I don't have kids but lots of my friends do. As others have said it will often by a nanny at the school gates.

How fixed on Fulham are you? How much do you think it suits you? If you are at all uncertain look at the Clerkenwell/farringdon/Barbican/Islington area. Similar amenity but IMO less transient and less flashy money.
I couldn't do Fulham. I'm very happy in the EC1/2 area.

You will do fine. But don't be surprised if your liberal left views seem a bit right wing here. Anecdote: I was at supper with some stalwarts of the Tory party (biting my tongue the whole time) and even they were all very anti guns. That was in Fulham area.
I have American friends here in Surrey who have settled very well, but I think they have found the friendship culture a bit tricky at times. They had very good friends who were Dutch.

I also grew up in Barking and Dagenham, used to describe it as Outer London as its a London borough and not real Essex. I would also say you can't be too simplistic about Essex people's politics. I knew skinhead National Front sympathisers who had good Asian friends. It is increasingly a far more ethnically mixed area than where I live now. It's just got the normal problems of a relatively poor white working class population.
But none of that will affect the OP, who is highly unlikely to spend much time in such areas.

I couldn't do Fulham. I'm very happy in the EC1/2 area.

I couldn't do EC1/2. I'm very happy in Fulham.