To worry about making friends in London? And people's notions about Americans?

[Begentleimnewhere]

We are preparing to move to London from the U.S. as a result of my DH's job transfer. I've been so always loved London and my kids are little enough that they won't complain (6 and 4). My DH has committed to stay for at least 3 years, but if all goes well it could be a lot longer. His company is paying for private school and giving us a generous housing allowance, and a bunch of other financial incentives, and equalizing the taxes to what they are here, so we will probably have a higher standard of living in London than we do here, even though it is so expensive there. We've found a nice flat and narrowed the schools down to a few choices that have space for my older DC.

Last night I spoke to a friend of a friend who recently returned from living in London for a few years under similar circumstances. I've met this woman several times and as far as I can tell she is friendly, smart, and fun. I was looking forward to getting some tips from her, but to be honest she kind of took the wind out of my sails. She ultimately enjoyed her experience but she said it was very, very hard for her to make friends. She met lots of moms at her kids' schools, neighbors, etc., and they were all pleasant and polite, but nobody was receptive to her efforts at getting to know them. This woman is a bit outspoken, but not inappropriately so, although I wonder if the line of appropriateness might be different over there. She ended up making most of her friends through clubs and activities geared toward other expats.

I'm a bit more shy than this woman, though still not what you'd call an introvert. I will be leaving behind a great group of "mom friends" from my DC's preschool, and they are a big part of making life as a stay-at-home mom bearable. Obviously it took time to build these friendships and I know I can't instantly recreate what I have here, but I also know I won't be happy alone with my kids all day every day for 3 years.

So be brutally honest: what should I be expecting as an American mom moving to London? (Speaking in huge generalizations, obviously.) I'm not expecting a welcome party, but will I eventually be able to make real friends and feel like a normal person? I know there are plenty of Americans in London and they all seem to love it so I'm hoping it can't be that hard.

Also should I be worried about fitting in with the other parents at an expensive "pre-prep" school? I'm told we won't get DC into a decent state school mid-year and the international schools that have space aren't convenient to my DH's office. Where we live now the public schools are excellent and even wealthy people usually use them. We are reasonably comfortable financially, but TBH it would be a big stretch to afford the flat and school if DH's company wasn't paying. I'm a normal mid-30s mom who is still carrying a bit of baby weight and wears yoga pants a bit more than I should. I make an effort to dress nicely --when I'm not too frazzled-- but I am far from a fashionista. Am I going to feel poor and frumpy next to the posh private school mums?

Is there anything I should specifically try NOT to do in order to avoid fulfilling negative stereotypes about Americans? I won't throw any baby showers but that's about all I've gleaned from MN so far.

Sorry this message was so long, I hope at least a few people actually read it. Thanks very much!

And New York, the state that the OP is from, has been a leader in the movement.
But there is New York and then there is New York state ....
driving the back route from NYC to Ithaca once was quite an eye opener

same sex marriage is not legal in all of the UK as it is in the US.
True but the UK is a lot less extreme than the USA
as the abortion situation proves much too much

begentle
West London is really cool
but its to the rest of the UK as Manhattan is to the depths of the Catskills

Well, if we are moving on to abortion rights, sadly NI is difficult there also.

Well that is religious bigots for you .... something we have a lot less of here in the UK than in the US thank goodness for compulsory RE in schools

Welcome to London!

OP, I am not an American but am a Kiwi who moved to the UK (central London) in my early 20s and ended up married to a Brit.

I will be honest, it did take time to make new friends especially as I had no kids at the time but 10 years later I have made about 10 very close friends which were pre children, my best friend is a work colleague who I met in my first job here and another whose apartment was on the same floor as mine, the others I had to work at harder like going to clubs and then meeting for a coffee etc which is hard when you work full time. I am also friends with a number of ex colleagues, nursery mums and friends (or their wives) of my DH.

My kids aren't school age yet but I have been welcomed with open arms by most people at baby / toddler groups, it is harder as you don't know what the social 'norm' is over here and people are more friendly with people their own nationality ime, you just have to introduce yourself and make small talk (dreary I know!) and then hopefully they won't care about your accent.

I'm friends with a few Americans, Canadians, Aussies, other Kiwis but I try to not be friends with only expats.

We love Donald Trump in Essex. We wish we had someone like him over here.

I am from Essex but I can understand darthvader's feelingsdue to the people she met in school and probably being teased for her accent etc. It all depends who you meet, but parts of Essex are not as cosmopolitan and well-off and educated as some areas of London, so darthvader would come across a different type of people.

In general, English people are more reserved than in a lot of other countries so it is more difficult to break through the barriers.

Claig, we do, Nick Griffin!

goodnightdarthvader1, yes in Barking and Dagenham Griffin and the BNP were quite popular. A lot of working class people living there liked them.

Op Claig is using the royal 'we' there. S/he is a huge fan for some unexplicable reason. Don't worry Claig's household aside Trump isn't popular here and he is treated as a bit of a joke.

His tilt at the presidency is treated with a general sense of incredulity, mixed with a slight fear that by some crazy outside chance he might win and get his permatanned finger on the nuclear button.

Here's my two cents as an East coast American who has been year 10 years.....Making friends in the UK takes longer and there are about a million social rules compared to the U.S. If your a born and bred New Yorker you might need to lower the volume and intensity. Yoga pants don't fly as something you would wear out of the house. Athletic clothes worn when not playing a sport will make you stand out like a sore thumb. Learn to offer everyone a cup of tea and learn to make it properly. You will miss sunshine. Plan vacations that take you to hot sunny places in the winter, now. Pay for private insurance and get a paediatrician. Just skip the whole 'GP' experience. It will add huge amounts of stress that isn't necessary. Explore Europe as much as possible. Cheap flights from London make it really easy and inexpensive. Thanksgiving is downright depressing so plan to celebrate. We do a huge bash most years and the Brits love it. But know you will be doing it on a Saturday! Check out all the neighbourhoods in London. They are fantastic and really different. And know that if it all goes tits up other American expat moms will almost always come to your rescue.

ComposHatComesBack, you're from up North, aren't you? I am from Essex, born and bred, I know Essex well. Essex is UKIP terrirtory. Essex is an independent, hard-working, striving county which is why it prefers Tories and UKIP in general. While the snotty, snobbish metropolitan London elite dislike Trump, here in Essex we love him and love America and its free expression and liberty.

His tilt at the presidency is treated with a general sense of incredulity, mixed with a slight fear that by some crazy outside chance he might win and get his permatanned finger on the nuclear button.

Trust me, there are plenty of Americans who feel the same way. We should have a better sense of what his chances really are when people actually start casting votes.

Welcome to London OP.

I find that a lot of Americans in London (particularly the very affluent ones living in West London) seem to be trying to live out some kind of Richard-Curtis-film-esque quaint English upper middle class fantasy life. Which is fine if it pleases them but is a bit tedious if you're English and just getting on with living. I would advise you to be sensitive to the fact that you are moving to one of the most privileged and international parts of London, and not to assume that you can generalise anything about London/England/UK/Europe from naice SW6. If you get bored of expat fantasy land try singing in a choir that also drinks or doing a meetup.com group that interests you.

I lived in the US for some years and the UK and US models of friendship are generally very different. In the US it's quite easy to have a casual coffee with someone you don't know very well - but then it becomes progressively harder to establish a close friendship with them, and many people only have close relationships within their own family. In the UK it is generally reversed - it's very hard to get over the initial barrier of first getting someone to do something social when you don't know them well - but then it gets progressively easier to become good friends. This is why British people can perceive Americans as superficial - they are bowled over by how friendly Americans seem when they initially meet, but then become confused that the friendship doesn't get any closer.

Well it's a hunting gun if that makes any difference. It's for deer and pheasants, not protection against God knows what. :o

Join a local facebook group for SW6 and also check out matchupmums for meeting people.
If you have a good local GP then don't see a paediatrician. I live just south of Fulham and usually get an appointment within 24hrs. I don't get why some of my American friends run straight to an expensive private paediatrician when you can get free treatment for your kids from Dr or pharmacist.

Yes Claig I am, but I've lived all over the UK including true blue London commuter belt. Nowhere have I detected any enthusiasm for Trump (you aside of course!) What evidence have you got for this unfathomable pocket of Trump worship in Essex?

I take the point that Essex is probably the most right leaning parts of the UK (probably the best way of explaining Essex, is that it to London what New Jersey is to New York). Support for UKIp is not an expression of individual freedom and the support but restricted freedoms (notably freedom of movement) protectionism and increased spending in a centralised NHS.

Anyway I thought the Tories were part of the LibLabCon elitist PPE PC-mafia not doughty defenders of liberty.

Ps. Sorry for the de-rail!

'What evidence have you got for this unfathomable pocket of Trump worship in Essex? '

Everyone I know, just as UKIP stormed the councl elections with nearly 29% of the popular vote. What it comes down to is that people really are different in different parts of the country and among different classes. If you were born and bred in Essex there would be a higher chance of you being like the majority of Essex.

'is that it to London what New Jersey is to New York'

Yes that is probably right, although I don't know much about New Jersey.

'Anyway I thought the Tories were part of the LibLabCon elitist PPE PC-mafia not doughty defenders of liberty. '

They are, which is why Essex people voted 29% for UKIP in council elections and turfed the Tories out of one of their safest seats in the country and put UKIP in. But the UK is nowhere near as free and independent as America and the media fools lots of English people (but not in Essex where Trump is a hero).

What it comes down to is that all of England is different and in different parts you will meet different people, but nearly everywhere American people are liked.

Supporting Trump and a supporting UKIP are not the same thing. Trump is even more extreme in his views than UKIP. I'll leave it there as I'm not keen on derailing the thread.

'Supporting Trump and a supporting UKIP are not the same thing.'

Absolutely they are not. Trump is the real deal and UKIP are just actors. If Trump stood for a council election in Essex, they would have to draft in extra staff for the count, so high would the turnout be among locals.

museumum said

"I'll be honest - you will find it a lot easier to fit in if you're an Obama-voting east coaster than a middle America Donald Trump fan"

All I am saying is that while that may be true in Eton and in the parlours of the metropolitan political class in London, it certainly isn't true in Essex. If you are American and say you support Trumo in Essex, then there will be nadshakes all round and an endless supply of free drinks at the bar with people hanging onto your every word about what Trump has been saying and doing recently. It's not Eton, its Essex. It's not phoney, it's the real deal.

Well it's a hunting gun if that makes any difference. It's for deer and pheasants, not protection against God knows what.

Plenty of us in the UK have guns, particularly in rural areas, but still best not to show the middle class suburb dwellers the safe, lest they get all in a flap and start asking questions about where the meat in the stew came from That said we do all tend to favour gun control here. The idea of letting your average Brian buy himself a semi automatic is mind boggling because we've met Brian and he lives in the pub and would gleefully weaponise a fucking electric toothbrush

Religion wise, religions are like a dick here in the UK. Grand that you have one, but don't be waving it in my face.

Trump is a parody of himself, unless you're Claig. In which case he may be the second coming for the hard working people of Essex (there are no hard working people outside of Essex, don't bother looking. Lazy cunts the lot of us).

I meet a broad range of folks from the US, from pretty much every state as part of my job, and I would say that on the whole we are more reserved. US folks are generally on 'friends' terms when I'm still at the 'acquaintance' stage.

We don't enthuse the same way you guys do. 'Thank you' with a small, sincere smile is sufficient. 'Oh Gosh! Thank you SO MUCH!' will have us suspecting that you're taking the piss/being bloody sarky.

You should however still say thank you a lot, Minnesota style No transaction at a till/checkout is complete without at least 3 of the following 'thanks/thank you/ta/cheers/thanks love have a good one'. I'm willing to accept that there may be a north/south divide and regional variations on this.

If visiting us inbreds in the north, should you get the bus somewhere it is the done thing to thank the bus driver when you get off the bus. I haven't seen this done anywhere yet down south, but it won't kill you and it's good manners

If somebody suddenly becomes incredibly polite and seemingly warm, whilst their previously broad Brummie accent suddenly becomes rather RP, then you have offended them. They are being icily polite without the nasty, cheap, unnecessary obviousness of the 'icy' part.

If somebody is being seemingly very friendly, and calls you cheeky cunt/proper twat/daft bellend then congrats, you've made a genuine friend.

A Dutch friend first sent me the attached pic some years ago. It's funny 'cause it's true

't is the done thing to thank the bus driver when you get off the bus. I haven't seen this done anywhere yet down south'

Used to do this all the time in Essex when I was a kid. Haven't been on a bus since, so not sure if it happens regularly now.

Oh! And we're a country where the accent changes every 5 miles, and we do love our local dialects. We have approx. 500 names for a bread roll, for example, and some of these names are shared with other bready products in other regions of the UK, so as to maximise confusion. It also gives us something to argue about, as we love a good fucking argument. Is it a bread roll? a cob? a bap?

The last one standing gets to decide.

In London/the South:
Breakfast - first meal of day.
Brunch - late breakfast at weekend.
Lunch - middle meal of day.
Tea - late afternoon drink served wtih small sandwiches and tiny cakes.
Dinner - evening meal.
Supper - late evening meal, informal.

In the North:
Breakfast - first meal of day.
Brunch - what da fuk?
Lunch - what da fuk?
Tea - evening meal.
Dinner - middle meal of day.
Supper - what da fuk?

then there will be nadshakes all round

Sounds painful.

Trumo in Essex, then there will benadshakes all round and an endless supply of free drinks at the bar

Surely there's an enterprising American based in the UK on this thread who could put this unlikely theory to the test, if Claig is to be believed you could be in for a night of free bevy. If you do, please report back.

With people hanging onto your every word about what Trump has been saying and doing

Have the good people of Essex not heard of something called 'the internet' or the 'porn and ebay button' as they may know it, where news from around the globe can be consumed at leisure. With this technology they will no longer need to ply travellers from distant lands with booze to discover what is happening.