Real dilemma about Christmas - WWYD

[notamum3210]

My fiancé and I have been a couple for just over 6 years and we're getting married next year.
I'm at a loss at what to do about Christmas. My family are from a religious background where we don't celebrate Christmas although we still give friends and neighbours Christmas cards.
My fiancé's family do Christmas in a BIG way. This year is set to be their biggest yet - there'll be about 10 family members there including my fiancé's sister's baby and his brother's 10 year old. It's really special to have them together as some family live abroad.
Anyway- since I've been with my fiancé I have spent Christmas Day with his family. As I never had Christmas growing up its really wonderful - very special.
A couple of years ago my parents went away on holiday and I looked after my brother for a week or so. He was 9 at the time and as it coincided with Christmas my future mother in law kindly invited him along- he LOVED it and it was very very special. They even got him some pressies and I did too just so he wouldn't feel left out when all was being opened under the tree.

Fast forward to this year and I've been invited for Christmas again and I don't know whether I should go. My brother is now 11 and I know he would be heartbroken if I got to have a Christmas and he didn't. I've asked my fiancé if he could come along (he really isn't any trouble) but he's said that it probably would be too much of a full house. I imagine my mil would say yes but I don't want to put her under more pressure as she's cooking for a lot of people and it's the biggest Christmas yet.
I know his family have bought presents for me and are assuming I'm coming. I just don't know what to do. I want to go but I hate the idea of my younger brother sitting at home with no company while I'm out enjoying myself.

Advice?

Quite titchy.

Well, it's good that it's sorted. I hope you all have a lovely day.

I think it's OK for your fiance to have a different opinion to you about whether it was reasonable to ask his mum to invite your brother at short notice, and I understand why you felt torn about things.

I think it's OK for him to have a different opinion to you about your threat to drop out of an accepted invitation at short notice.

Like others I am concerned about him being "livid" though. Differences of opinion are fine, it's how they are resolved that's the issue.

If you are a couple about to enter a mixed faith marriage, or if you are of the same faith but have differences in how and to what extent you observe it, differences of opinion, expectation, attitude, background and experience are going to crop up all the time - if you can't agree on what to do at Christmas, how are you going to deal with raising children if you have them? One person threatening to flounce if they don't get their way and the other being "livid" and not trying to understand the dilemma might not be the best approach going forward. I am in a mixed faith relationship myself and sometimes you don't agree, sometimes you compromise, sometimes one person gets their way and the other doesn't, but you have to have the maturity to discuss things like adults.

It might be a good idea to talk to your brother about your marriage and how you will be forming a new family, one that you hope he will have a lot of contact with, but ultimately won't be his. Your dh presumably does not have his siblings in tow when visiting your folks and neither should you, especially not by inviting them along yourself.

Well it's quite Fucking different isn't it now. I'm not bombarded for two months about divali am I? It's not in every single shop, all over the telly, the last few weeks of school aren't all about divali are they?
He could be the only kid in his class who doesn't do Xmas, which would have been fine but now he's experienced it he knows what every one else is going to get and he's not.
Fucks sake it's not bloody hard to show a bit of compassion to a kid.

All the op is trying to do is not make her brother feel sad. What the actual fuck is wrong with that?!
If he wants to celebrate Christmas now that's a decision he can make and his sister will be celebrating it with him.
Just because his parents don't celebrate doesn't mean he doesn't have to.
I'll say it the again Christmas is not really a Christian holiday anymore, it's cultural.

No, your fiance wasn't being mean spirited. His family are not obliged to invite various of your relatives to theirs for Xmas, whether they're alone or not.

You have behaved quite badly, having accepted the invitation some time ago. Yes, your brother may spend the day alone, but I'm sure he's done that before and survived. You've only worried about it because you've been infected by your fiance's family's investment in Xmas and you prefer it. If you want your brother included, you'll have to host in future.

I don't think OP has her sibling "in tow" on a day to day basis does she?

She just wants him to have a Christmas. It's his parents who choose not to observe Christmas not him, a child, he has no choice. By the sounds of it, if he did have a choice, he would have Christmas.

Considering OP's fiancé was "livid" at the thought of spending the day at home with OP & her brother, asking if it's OK for him to join in the plans seems a good solution. I'm glad MIL-to-be is happy to accommodate him.

OP is just considering her younger brother's feelings and wanting things to be nice for him. What on earth is wrong with that? It's one day a year - there's nothing to suggest her fiancé has to make compromises for her brother 365 days a year.

I can't believe how uncharitable some people are being.

Christmas, season of goodwill to others... Not on mumsnet.

DB is just a kid, a young kid.

So if OP's PILs have a bbq every year for their family, and OP's younger brother tagged along one year, you think it perfectly reasonable that he gets invited again because he had such a good time and he'd be upset at missing out on burger? How about the MIL's birthday. He'd enjoy that too. Maybe she should invite him to that.

I know, perhaps they should round up all the Hindi and Muslim kids in the neighbourhood and invite them too. After all they're missing out too aren't they.

Making this kid happy is the responsibility of his parents. Not his sisters's fiance's parents.

I think your fiancé is an arse actually, and I'd be seriously questioning his reaction. Being 'livid' because you hoped your own brother could be included in a day out? Sounds like a prick.

I agree with Mrspnut. The more the merrier at Christmas. OP's db is 11 years old, that's a little boy for goodness sake and I and everyone I know would welcome this young lad with open arms. It's called the Christmas spirit. I would also have a present or a stocking for him. I think the fiancé is being mean trying to exclude him, what a Scrooge. I bet the mil would love to have him, let her speak for herself. He will soon be officially part of the family. Even if she is having a formal lunch an extra guest can be added. My mother always does a buffet style Christmas lunch and we have at least 23-26 people some of whom are my sister's boyfriend's father, stepsister, daughter with her husband and their children and it varies each year. My mother would welcome this little boy. I don't get the scroogieness of the comments, they're totally opposite of what Christmas is about.

Bunch of miserable bastards.
No one is actually asking / expecting that much ...
An extra body at Christmas.
Not actually a big deal.
For most people.

OP, don't make a habit of basing your actions on fear of how "upset and angry" or "guilting" your boyfriend chooses to be.

If something like including a little boy in a holiday party is going to set him off, what good will he be when a real crisis strikes? What if your aging parents become ill and need your care, or you have a disabled child together that cramps his style, or if you have a work conflict with one of his relatives' weddings, or whatever?

I'd really contemplate the way this whole situation played out and what the implications are for the other ups and downs of life with him.

In future OP...do Christmas at your house. Invite your brother. I feel for him.

Asking to bring a +1 when you are the +1 yourself is rude though.

Plus gifts will have to be bought for this boy by the hosts now. Anybody fancy Hamley's a week before Christmas? Me neither.

For everyone saying the MIL would be "put in that position" by a last-minute inclusion of the child - what position?

Every family Christmas gathering I've attended has been so oversupplied with food and drink that it could accommodate 10 unexpected people let alone one little boy. How could the presence of another child - one who is very close to their soon-to-be daughter-in-law - be such an inconvenience or annoyance to anyone? I'm sure she would organize his presents and make sure he behaves properly. What exactly is the imposition on the hosts, here? The child is very nearly part of their extended family at this point. A nephew-in-law if you will.

I really hope you and your DP can talk this through. I hope there us no simmering resentment.

As PPs have said, lots of families - especially those having big, noisy family get-togethers - would welcome an additional child at Christmas. Your DB will be good company for your niece. And he IS family. He's your DP's (almost) BIL. My sister's MIL comes to all our family occasions. She's part of the family.

It would have been better to have raised the issue earlier, though. Having grown up in a family which doesn't 'do' Christmas, you might not have realised how far in advance, some families organise this stuff. Your MIL has probably bought all her Christmas presents already. Now she might have to brave Argos the Saturday before Christmas in order to buy something for your DB to unwrap.

Next year, start having this conversation around the beginning of November.

I think you should buy a few gifts for your brother and let your MiL know you've already taken care of the gifts for him, so she needn't buy anything.

I still feel that MiL was put on the spot. How do you refuse a request from a future DiL? I once had 2 additional overnight guests for Christmas; 2 friends of my DS1's now ex-fiancee. We were fine and they were very nice girls, but 2 of her smaller gifts went to her friends as it was very last minute. Food wasn't a problem, I always cook twice as much as I should.

IMO, your brother will probably expect that he will be spending Christmas with your fiance's family from now on. He's young and I wouldn't blame him for that. This is an issue that you'll need to settle one way or another way before next Christmas!

If they're so big on the spirit of Christmas, I would have thought hosting one small extra person who otherwise wouldn't get a Christmas would be a pleasure. Plus they will all be family after marriage. I would be disappointed in the fiance at his reaction.

I don't know, putting myself in the fiance's place, I might feel pretty manipulated by the OP. He initally told her it would be too much to have her brother (maybe that's the reason, maybe there is something else he didn't want to say, who knows). She then comes up with, "well, then, I might not come, either," essentially forcing his hand; if he wants her there, he has to ask if the brother can come, too.

Look, I get the cultural aspect of this as I have one going on in my extended family but Im sorry - if your mum and dad are at home this year and you are not babysitting your brother there is no need for him to go to your inlaws with you. The year he did was a bonus, nothing less, nothing more.

sorry, to continue, he's 11 and like all kids he wants presents and to have fun. Whats not to like about it?

And people are correct, one more person at your MIL's isn't going to make a difference. But, I still think that for your brother the year he did have a Christmas was a one off due to circumstances. And to be frank I think your partner really does just want this as family with no extended family included. Not that I think your brother is extended family but perhaps your partner does.

I grew up in a (Christian) household that did not celebrate Christmas, so I'm speaking from some experience.

With respect, I think you're over thinking this and possibly projecting your feelings onto your brother. You've made a mountain out of a molehill.

Given that you're not looking after your brother this year I am sure he's old enough to have understood that he was not invited, even if he would have liked to come.

Of course now it's a moot point, because if you've told him he's invited you can't uninvite him now. And now you've set the precedent for years to come. I can understand why your fiancé is annoyed and I'm sure your MIL did not feel she could say no.

What I can't understand why one extra well behaved child is such a massive imposition when there is a houseful already! And if my son had had a partner for 6 years I would be really upset if she couldn't just come straight to me as ask if her little brother could come for Christmas. Just as if my own daughter wanted to bring a friend.

"Plus they will all be family after marriage."

Why on earth does being married make a difference?

OP - If your future mil hadn't invited him, would your brother have had to stay at home alone while you went out for Christmas dinner? Your parents are on holiday again this year?