DD won't let Grandpa attend baby group

[HurtGranny]

My DD attends a wonderful mother and baby music class with 1 year old DGD. DD took me to one class a few weeks ago and it was magical - unlike anything available to me when I was a new parent.

I wanted to go again and take my husband as he would so enjoy watching our DGD. But DD is suddenly excluding us. Apparently "the other mums would feel uncomfortable having a strange old man glaring at them from the sidelines and not participating in the singing".

We are ever so sad that DH is missing out on such a wonderful part of DGD's childhood and that DD is being so unkind.I suggested that it sounded like she was embarrassed of her father but, surprise surprise, she didn't reply.

It's not the first time DD's excluded us. We do most of the driving to visit DGD as according to DD the baby gets travel sick. We've never even babysat DGD as DD thinks we are too old (DH is nearly 80 but I’m not!). Coming to watch the baby group would have meant the world to us. I tried everything I could to come up with a solution but DD is now refusing to discuss the matter.

I am so angry and hurt. AIBU to want to make DD understand how hurtful her behaviour is? Any other grannies out there being excluded from their grandchildren’s lives?

" My DD's main problem seems to be that her father wouldn't join in, he'd just watch from the back. I don't see why this would be an issue personally but clearly a lot of you agree with her. "

Well, OP seems to think this is what her DH would do!

Anyway, this is symptomatic I imagine - sounds like OP sees quite a lot of her DGD and the DD may want this as "her" space and be fed up of being badgered as seems to have happened.

Yes. The OP agreed. It's actually the reason the daughter gave.

What a bunch of miserable people there are on here. GD wants to attend a group with GC. What a horrible man he must be.

One would hope that people would be more family oriented on here. That people would want to encourage family friendly groups. Obviously not though.

OP. I think you are maybe over reacting. Have you asked your daughter why she thinks it is a bad idea. There may be a fair reason. I do understand why you think her reaction is odd.

not rtft but at first I thought the OP was a joke. It's written like satire. It's the kind of thing I'd write as a parody of my DMs over dramatic woe-is-me nobody-loves-me poor me me me nonsense. But no, it appears that you mean it.

OP: I REALLY hope you are thinking this through. You sound overbearing and hard work. And for the record I didn't like men being at these sorts of groups because I wasn't comfortable or confident breastfeeding in front if strange men. Plus our group leader was very strict and vocal about people bringing extras (I suspect because she knew it made other mums uncomfortable).

Not to cut and paste huge chunks of text but I think these points need saying again:

Groups like this often include vulnerable mothers guided to them by professionals. Your DD may know of mothers there with PND, DA survivors, struggling to bond and interact with their baby, and an observer particularly a male observer watching them, (different from a dad participating alone with his child) may have a big effect on how relaxed they feel and able to interact with their baby.

So very very true from my own personal experience. This isn't about you. It's about other People.

Additionally, I have never understood the obsession with babysitting - so many other ways to help but my relatives kept insisting that they should babysit so I could "go out". It wasn't what I needed. They weren't thinking about my needs or my children - they were thinking of their own needs only. But cooking a nice meal or doing a grocery shop would have been a god send and welcomed. Perhaps it's just too soon. You need to play the long game here and develop a long term relationship based on respecting the way she has chosen to parent her child.

And a thousand times this.....

Woah! Your reaction is ridiculous. Its up to your dd who she invites to what and I suggest that if this level of melodrama and investment is typical (being excluded from dgd's life) then I don't blame her wanting to keep you at arms length

dgd is your dd's daughter not just your granddaughter. Was your own mother as over bearing as this? Did you like that? Or did you want to do things your way with your own kids?

Can I give some insight from a class organiser?

I run a class for babies. Almost every baby is accompanied by their mother although I would not have a problem with the accompanying adult being the dad or grandparent. However, I do have a rule that it is only 1 parent per baby. The reason for this is that I want the group of (almost exclusively new mums) to gel as a group and I don't want anyone feeling separate/excluded because other mums are bringing various other family members. I do this in part due to a swimming class that I took myself with my first baby that became increasingly dominated by a couple of mums who brought extended family who insisted on the class being regularly stopped so that they could take photos.

I've only had an issue with this on one occasions when 2 mums wanted to bring several grandparents with them. I suspect in the OP's case, that a word was had with the DD about the number of adults that were allowed per child. However, it sounds like OP has realised that she might have come across as a bit dramatic. Hopefully you can find a nice activity to do as a wider family. Your DD is lucky to have parents who want to be involved.

'Any other grandparents out there being excluded from their grandchildren's lives?'

This post on MN suggests goady fucker or detachment from reality. Gransnet would tell her to be thankful that she is involved in her grandchildren's lives. MN suggests she stop being a melodramatic arsehole and making an issue out of nothing.

I take my mum to classes when she is visiting, but only the ones that welcome grandparents. I certainly would not have taken her to the small one where there are only 10 of us sitting together in a small room, it would have felt weird.

I love my DM dearly, but she also says some quite cringeworthy things to other mothers about their children/ our town / the cost of housing here. Frankly I am on edge all the time she is at groups . I know that it is shallow, but I'm trying to make friends and my mother spouting some 'grim oop north' nonsense does not help.

Iprefer. Would you complain about fathers being at these groups. I understand your feelings about strange men being around you breast feeding but fathers of similar aged children should be understanding of your situation.

To quote the OP

I tried everything I could to come up with a solution but DD is now refusing to discuss the matter.

Um, apart from accepting her decision which would be a winner on both sides, really. In your daughter's mind it was clearly a one-off and I'm not sure why you are complaining about being excluded after being included!

Has your husband actually said anything about wanting to go, because you don't mention this at all. You got to see your DGD at the class. Let your daughter enjoy her bonding time with her own daughter.

I don't think MN is anti-grandparent at all.

The response is over dramatic, definitely, and really there's nothing that can be done to change the situation. Going on about it to the DD will only make it worse now. She's said no, for whatever her reasoning and being over emotional (even emotionally blackmailing) isn't ever going to help.

However, I went to a music class with my DS (one of the ones mentioned earlier). It definitely wasn't just for mothers, there were regular dads, grandmothers and grandfathers there as the adult in charge. Fairly often, and extra adult would attend, such as as the other parent with a day off work, the other grandparent and so on. To me, that seemed completely normal and reasonable. Occasionally there would be a fairly elderly grandparent that would sit and watch. Nothing weird or strange about it, it was actually nice to see grandparents enjoying watching their grandchildren.

The OP read like a reverse but the follow up posts don't.

It is nice that he wants to go along but it isn't a family outing! I don't think I would want various baby free family members rocking up with me at a baby group! I think you need to accept her wishes on this one.

If I ran a class like this, I would probably not want extra spectators as a regular thing, but I might do a special class (once a term, maybe) that was more of an open social occasion - a bit of a party, where the children and the parent who brings them could sing a couple of their songs, so grandparents or other family members could see the sort of things they did in the class.

Walking the plank. Isn't it wrong to make the parents have to choose which one can do the group with baby. I can see how you want to make the group gel, and extended families are a problem, but only allowing 1 parent?

Can I swap you and your Dh for my parents please OP? My parents have never wanted to have much to do with the DC and have never babysat, taken DC's out, rarely visit and never invite us back to their house... I'd love parents who were more involved. But hopefully your DD may wish to do more with you as your DGC grow up.

It would drive me mad to have my parents going on about attending a group like this. It was lovely of the dd to involve the op in the first place, but if it's a group where she's making friends then of course she doesn't want her parents in tow. I'd find it a complete bloody circus bringing mine along. As for discussing it in very measured terms, it doesn't matter how you discussed it if she'd already said no.

As another poster said, think about how involved your mum was op, and what was good about that and what wasn't. It's not uncommon for mums to need to carve out their own space and independence, she's not excluding you, she's just living her own life.

Well I might be the only one but I think it is very very unkind of your daughter to treat her father like this.
Would anyone really care if a child's grandfather came to one of the classes?
My lovely dad came to all mine, brothers and sisters kids things, not all the time, but if he was around, nobody batted an eyelid, nobody thought he was a strange old man!!
Maybe a few years ago people weren't too-precious about their babies.
Your husband is in his eighties so who knows how long he has to share in his grand daughters life
I would give anything for my boys to have their grandfather back
A small thing like this could make him so happy and she is too wrapped up in herself to see it from your side
I despair at how people treat their families in this country

I went to a Mother & Baby group with both my kids. It never occurred to be to bring my parents along as I wanted to spend time with my kids and not have my parents there. Because then my kids get distracted very easily.

Also there a lot of moms still breastfeeding and would feel very uncomfortable when a Man shows up. At one class I went the father of the baby always came along and I felt uncomfortable feeding my DD even using a Nursing Cover..

That might be one reason why your DD didn't want your DH along..

Also you remind me a lot of my mom. If she doesn't get it the way she wants she doesn't talk to me for a while and thinks that I'm withdrawing myself from her..

Could this be about something other than baby group?

My mother is very critical so there's no way I would have taken her with me to a baby group because I'd feel that she was judging me and would give me "advice" afterwards which Id interpret as a list of what I was doing wrong. She's the sort of person that had the "mums these days..." attitude.

I think it's a good sign that she took you but that "finding a solution" has been interpreted as nagging. Let that one go.

Were your parents heavily involved when you became a parent? We all have different versions of normal depending on our experiences and despite a shared history, people may remember things differently. According to my ex his paternal grandmother was hands on but his mother remembers an interfering MIL.

What are your daughter's ILs like? Your daughter might be keeping you at arm's length because of the relationship with them. For example she might want her daughter to see her grandparents for equal amounts.

How confident is your daughter feeling as a parent?

What was your relationship with her like pre-baby? I've seen lots of posts on here by people saying that the grandparents are only interested in seeing their grandchildren rather than their child.

OP says that he wouldn't join in, so what's the point in going? It's not a show or spectator sport.

I think the idea of inviting them out somewhere instead is a good idea - maybe see if any kiddy bands are playing near you? My DS loved seeing The Wiggles when he was tiny.

hartmel and others making similar points, with respect, your own insecurities about BFing - even when covered - are your issue. You can't expect to live in a female only bubble until your child stops BFing.
Another illogical thing in this thread is that people say they feel uncomfortable singing, dancing etc in front of others they don't really know but will see weekly but adding someone they'll never see again into the class is unacceptable? Odd.

What a bunch of miserable people there are on here. GD wants to attend a group with GC. What a horrible man he must be.

Remember we're hearing one side here, and it's not the GDFs. I can't be sure of course, but I doubt he's as bothered about all this as the OP. If he was, surely he'd just agree to join in?

No one has said the GF is horrible, just suggested OP tone down the "I'm being EXCLUDED!" a tad.

Passmethecrisps "Op posted once with fairly limited information and then hasn't returned."

She hasreturned. She posted twice an hour before you posted that.

Hi OP,

It is awful when you write the first post and then people pick every word apart and meanwhile you realise you have overdramatised! Been there

I think as you've said in your first post, these groups are a relatively new 'invention' and your DD will have been to a fair few I imagine, and has a feel for the 'norm' at each group. I've been to some where the organiser is fussy, or space is limited so it's one parent and the occasional one guest (never two), I've been to music ones with singing/actions where a couple of people come (never three) but both are expected to get involved/sit on floor/dance. If you husband is up for that, fine, but you have admitted yourself he isn't.

I have actually been to tonnes of different groups but can honestly say I've never been to a baby group where the mum is there with both grandparents watching. It's just overkill frankly. She will know this is odd, she has tried to get across to you (albeit in a clumsy way) that this would be odd. Lots of people here have said it's odd. Not that it's fair, right, toeing the line with the equality act, just that you/she would stick out like a sore thumb. Maybe that doesn't bother you, but it clearly does bother her!

Also can I just say, I used these groups as a respite in the day for the hard work of looking after the baby, to break up my day and talk to adults. I also used visiting my parents as the same kind of respite. She kindly invited you along once because she wants to include you and obviously knew you'd enjoy it. Now she probably would prefer to see grandparents in the usual way, at their house or a cafe or something. You being at the group is creating a hindrance, not a help.

Look at your motivation for going, it sounds like it was all about what you would like, not about your DD or DGD at all. Why not ask your DD what she would like to do with you both? Go out to a soft play together, go to a baby friendly cafe or pub, take baby swimming at the local pool. So many options but don't try and take away something from her that she has found and organised for herself.