DD won't let Grandpa attend baby group

[HurtGranny]

My DD attends a wonderful mother and baby music class with 1 year old DGD. DD took me to one class a few weeks ago and it was magical - unlike anything available to me when I was a new parent.

I wanted to go again and take my husband as he would so enjoy watching our DGD. But DD is suddenly excluding us. Apparently "the other mums would feel uncomfortable having a strange old man glaring at them from the sidelines and not participating in the singing".

We are ever so sad that DH is missing out on such a wonderful part of DGD's childhood and that DD is being so unkind.I suggested that it sounded like she was embarrassed of her father but, surprise surprise, she didn't reply.

It's not the first time DD's excluded us. We do most of the driving to visit DGD as according to DD the baby gets travel sick. We've never even babysat DGD as DD thinks we are too old (DH is nearly 80 but I’m not!). Coming to watch the baby group would have meant the world to us. I tried everything I could to come up with a solution but DD is now refusing to discuss the matter.

I am so angry and hurt. AIBU to want to make DD understand how hurtful her behaviour is? Any other grannies out there being excluded from their grandchildren’s lives?

Lots of grans at the mother & baby groups I've been to (often the grandparents looking after the child while mother is working) but I think the key is joining in. The groups I've seen would positively gush over a grandfather sitting on the floor joining in with the singing etc, but a grandfather spectating would just be a bit odd.

I totally agree with dads coming to baby groups, im not at all questioning that, but I think a grandad is a bit tricky based on my experiences of BF in front of older men who frowned on it\told me I should stop BF etc etc, however a grandad who is there because he is doing the childcare I totally accept and wouldn't question - it is just the idea of a baby group as a thing you can watch when there will be women BF.

How come your husband didn't go in the first place?

YABU. It's a group where people are e

YABU. It's a group where people are expected to participate if attending, not spectate.

Not sure if your opening post isn't a bit goady, OP, but who am I to say? Anyway, re the situation as described:
As a grandma, I'm not included in all my dgd's activities. Dd is a busy woman and has to get on with life. When it seems ok to include me, she does, as did your dd with you.
The spectating situation - the bottom line is that other people's children are not available for yours and your husband's entertainment. I wouldn't want some old bloke watching my dd at a class, never mind my dgd. How would you feel if some of Dd's friends turned up to watch your old feller play bowls or do the garden? Its just not on.
And as previous posters have said, there's a safeguarding issue - if granddads are regularly observing, who checks them out? How long before granddad decides to observe with his brother or his old friend? No. Its not on.
A key point to remember is that this is your grandchild, not your child. You had the chance to do all this stuff around three decades ago. Not all the classes available now were available then, but there was plenty to do, I know, I was there.

Good lord, what is wrong with you people? You would enjoy a parent-child group is another parent brought a grandparent along? WTF? OP, I do think you're overreacting a little but I understand why you're hurt. My parents and I live in different countries and whenever they visit they come along to everything - Parent/child classes, music class, baby gym. They volunteered in their classrooms too. Without exception, they have been welcomed everywhere.

It makes me so sad when I hear of these people -only on MN, mind - who cannot seem to bear anyone else spending any time with their child. God forbid anyone else might love them or get pleasure from them.

I think you need to leave it, but I personally think your daughter was a very nasty for calling her father a "strange old man." And I'd have called her on it.

Blimey if every child in a baby group brought 3 adults it'd be very crowded! I suspect she was told that after you attended hence nut wNtibg yo take grandad.
And that's before the paedophile on every corner brigade start about strange old blokes in play parks et.

I personally think your daughter was a very nasty for calling her father a "strange old man." And I'd have called her on it.

She was clearly talking about the perspective of the other people in the group who don't know him, therefore he is a STRANGER. Who glares, apparently.

I don't know how I can say this without being to blunt, but you really do need to get over yourself.

it wouldn't be so magical if all the mothers and babies were accompanied by grandparents, siblings, aunts and uncles.... And your DD has every right to live a life without you in her pockets. It might be a good idea to stop taking such silly things so personally and find your own entertainment.

OP, these groups aren't a spectator sport. I didn't BF, but it is quite awkward enough sitting on the floor in a ring, singing Twinkle Twinkle and doing actions with an uncooperative baby roaring on your lap, without spectating grandparents looking on from the sidelines, as if it was a football match. Totally different from a children's swimming class in that way, and likewise totally different to grandparents who do childcare attending and participating in the class with their grandchild.

You may see an elderly man doting on his grandchild, other participating parents, especially those struggling with newer babies, may see what your daughter said.

It may in fact have nothing at all to do with him as an individual, or him being a man - it may be that she felt self-conscious or infantilised having her mother at the group last time, and doesn't want that to happen again, or risk it becoming a regular occurrence.

You weren't in the least unreasonable to ask if he could come another time, but the whole 'finding a solution' thing is a bit much - she's told you she doesn't want him to come, there doesn't need to be a 'solution'.

I was one of those carsick babies, incidentally. It's rare, but does happen. I grew out of it in later childhood, but don't hold your breath yet - I was probably eight-ish.

I'm starting to feel sorry for this GF!

If she was told after OP attended, then why not just say so?

If she thinks her dad would sit "glaring" & making others uncomfortable I would have thought that she could find a better way of saying it.

OP, it does sound as if you've really pissed heroff over this!

Would your husband really be bothered or was that just an angle for you to go again?

Yes, does your DH actually really want to go? All the enthusiasm/magic/would mean the world stuff sounds as if it's coming from you, rather than him.

Are you making a massive fuss about something he's not that bothered about and turning it into an issue between you and your daughter?

I think the OP is long gone.

I can't understand how some posters think as soon as you have a child nobody such as GP are allowed to want to spend time with the child. It's all you can hold them, buy them things, look in their general direction only when I say so. I will lay down all the rules including when and how much you are allowed to love my child. If you so much as ask to spend 5 minutes with the child you are controlling and have boundary issues.

FFS this class is, what, an hour a week? There are 167 more possible hours in the week for grandparents to spend with the grandchildren.

A mother and baby group is about the mothers and babies interacting together and their participation in the group, not providing experiences for spectators. It's nice you were able to go once (I'm going to guess you asked to go) and see it, but you can't really expect to go every time with DH to spectate because it's a nice experience with you. How about if every baby turned up with two additional adults in tow to watch? (Four if the other GPs are devastated and hurt at being excluded from this special part of their GCs life?) If I was running that group, the chance of the mothers and babies getting much out of it while under the eye of other adults and numerous other adults fidgeting, talking, moving around, cooing, would be minimal!

Groups like this often include vulnerable mothers guided to them by professionals. Your DD may know of mothers there with PND, DA survivors, struggling to bond and interact with their baby, and an observer particularly a male observer watching them, (different from a dad participating alone with his child) may have a big effect on how relaxed they feel and able to interact with their baby. Your daughter may even simply want to enjoy this special activity with her daughter as a mother/baby thing. This is her special time, her baby, you had those moments with her when she was little and now it is her turn.

"I tried everything I could to come up with a solution but DD is now refusing to discuss the matter."

So you tried and tried and tried to get her to say yes, until she finally realised you weren't going to stop arguing about it until you made her give in to you, and her only recourse left was to refuse to talk to you any more about it. You don't want to discuss it, you want to make her give you what you want.

This kind of behaviour is not going to help you. The more pressure you put on, the more you try to compel your DD to do things as you want them done and put your wishes and feelings first about her child, the more you will drive her away from you. The best thing you can do is relax. Be easy to be around, make it easy and fun to be with you instead of all about pressure and hurt feelings when you don't get your way.

And as another poster mentioned... are you really ok with your poor GC being made car sick? It sounds like you're minimising/disbelieving that and/or think it's more important to not have to do more than your fair share of driving to see her. Not sure the poor child will feel the same way.

Baby groups are as meant to be an opportunity for the mum to make friends. Having her own mum and dad there will just cramp her style.

Back off, you are over stepping the mark.

Hurtgranny I am just curious but what doesI tried everything I could to come up with a solution mean? It sounds to me as if you mean you have tried to talk her round and change her mind. I could be wrong, and I am sorry if I am making an assumption.

Being a new parent is very challenging. As a new parent we need to learn to trust our own judgement and make choices that may be hard.

I was very fixed in how I wanted to parent and fortunately my mum and in-laws respected this. I do think it helped to make things much smoother between all of us when I became a parent for the first time.

I think there is something quite different about baby singing (as with baby sensory) which is different to say a play group or a soft play place. The idea is to build the relationship between mum and baby, or between dad and baby. Some places are less definitive about this than others.

Hurtgranny can you try and work with your daughter to find useful, helpful, positive ways to be part of babies life that she is happy with too? Do you mind the fact you need to do most of the driving? When my nephew was born my parents were very involved, by the time I produced a dd they were not in a position to help. But my nephew was very much the golden boy, for all of us, the first, and they and the other grandparents went out of their way to help my sister, driving to collect my nephew, dressing him etc, feeding him, and then preparing a meal for my sister when she came to collect him after work they did that once a week and a second time a week sometimes too. This was immensity helpful for my sis.

It may be when your grandchild is older your daughter may be ready to ask for help. Please work on the attitude you have about this (in the nicest possible way) so if you are asked you can reply in a way that you really feel (e.g. if it is too much say so, if not and you want to do it, so say) and not in any way feel put out that you were not asked to do things when baby was little. My dd was exclusively breastfed for the first 6 months and rarely out of my sight.

Anyway, it may be you are included in more things and you will always be able to say yes or no, it would be strange if mums or dads expected their parents to babysit or child care. The relationship goes both ways, just don't allow this to sour your relationship to your dear daughter because there may be many more magical times ahead, especially at Christmas, and to create bad feeling now would be very sad.

We are all different. Parents can ask and grandparents can say yes or no, and vice versa.

Oh cross posted with rumbleinthrjungle and others.

Btw they really aren't all that, borejingles.

As you've only just been a few weeks ago, it would probably be pushing it for DGD to have 3 adults taking her so soon. One offs aren't so bad.
But your DD will probably come over as needy to the rest of the group.

Sorry OP this is barmy. These really are informal, loosely-arranged groups of parents at a vulnerable stage of life, trying to establish themselves as parents. Having your mum along one time is fine - you could say she has come to give you a hand with the baby. But having both parents along, they really become spectators. And that's not what these groups are about.
I had twins and used to do baby massage with a helper. One time, my nanny couldn't make it but my brother stepped in instead. I briefed him very carefully to keep in the background - these groups can be very intimate. I said, you'll be the only man, take it easy etc. And then baby DD insisted on crawling over and repeatedly burying her face in his crotch.

I haven't read all of the thread, only the first post and a few replies, so excuse me if this is something that's already been said.

You being there will change the dynamics of the class, it's well proven that people fit into these situations if they go on their own, maybe your daughter needs this. Does she have many mum friends?

Also as you said in your first post that your husband will just be there watching, maybe that's part of it? If he won't get involved what's the point?

People will also think it's strange that grandparents rock up with mum for the baby class. The fact that she asked you to go at all points to her not being controlling.

Can I reccommend that maybe you could recreate this baby class at home? It must be something you could all do, your ddher dh baby and you and your dh... Maybe make it a thing you can do once a month together if it's something that's very important?

I can understand you feel hurt, but I agree with shutupandshop, backing off would be the most sensible decision.

It's not a big deal that you and your DH can't visit a mother and baby music group, it really isn't! I can't see why it would 'have meant the world'. And if your DH is not the type of person who would sit on the floor and sing nursery rhymes with the group, then he might make others feel uncomfortable. (People like me, who are extremely self-conscious, but make the effort anyway!)

You sound over-invested. You aren't being excluded, I can tell that from your own words - but it's possible you could one day end up being excluded, if you carry on pushing the limits of what your dd is comfortable with.